Hi Craig Weinberg 

All of your quotes are very good advice.
What's your point ?


[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/3/2013 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Craig Weinberg 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2013-01-03, 08:47:13
Subject: Re: What Hell is like




On Thursday, January 3, 2013 6:06:42 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: 
Hi Craig Weinberg   

It doesn't matter whether you have good or bad intentions. 
The law and God judge us by what we do. You do the crime, 
you do the time. 

I'll let the Bible speak for itself, if that is the God you are talking about:


Timothy 1:5  
The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good 
conscience and a sincere faith. 
Timothy 6:10  
"For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this 
craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with 
many pangs. "

Hebrews 12:14  
Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will 
see the Lord. 
Timothy 3:13  
While evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and 
being deceived. 

Philippians 4:8 
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, 
whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any 
excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. 

Philippians 1:15-18  
Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will. The 
latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the 
gospel. The former proclaim Christ out of rivalry, not sincerely but thinking 
to afflict me in my imprisonment. What then? Only that in every way, whether in 
pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice. Yes, and I 
will rejoice, 

Ephesians 2:8-9  
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; 
it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 

Romans 2:5  
But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for 
yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed. 


You sin, you go to Hell. 

If you repent, you go to Heaven.
 

Personally, I believe 
that the "eternal torture" of Hell is not to be able to feel God's 
love and forgiveness. That would be Hell to a Jesus. He 
refers to being tossed out and undergoing a "weeping and 
gnashing of teeth".  


Hindus and Buddhists believe in reincarnation, which from 
what we observe, is not always a pleasant life. 


Personally I believe that Hell and Heaven are metaphors which extrapolate the 
ordinary high and low moods of human consciousness to a super-significance. God 
is a metaphor in the exact same way - an algebraic concept of X = Infinite 
proprietary superlatives. If you are in a world of competing polytheistic 
deities, each the representation of a personal superlative or sphere of 
influence (God of war, Goddess of beauty, etc), then the invention of a supreme 
ultimate deity who trumps all others in all categories is an excellent 
political strategy. It's a convenient way to consolidate allegiance and direct 
everyone's personal insecurities to a mass psychology solution.

  



[Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] 
1/3/2013   
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen 
----- Receiving the following content -----   
From: Craig Weinberg   
Receiver: everything-list   
Time: 2013-01-02, 20:24:14 
Subject: Re: The evolution of good and evil 




On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 6:21:27 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: 
On 1/2/2013 2:24 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:   
That really has nothing to do with Evil though, except in sloppy reasoning. 
True Evil is about intentionally initiating social harm. Getting smallpox is 
not evil, it is just unfortunate. Giving someone blankets known to be infected 
with smallp 

On the contrary it is sloppy ethics to confine 'evil' to intentional social 
harm.  First, it implies that socially bad is bad simpliciter, but values are 
ultimately personal values. 

Speaking of sloppy. I'm not sure what that was intended to say.  Without some 
explanation of why you say that evil is other than intentional social harm, it 
sounds like you are just saying that you disagree. 
  

  Second, it implies that as soon as we find a physical cause (he was drunk, he 
had YY chromosmes, his father beat him) for a behavior it's not longer evil.   

It implies that only to those who think that personal intention is not a 
physical cause in its own right. Just because someone was drunk when they 
commit an evil act doesn't mean that it wasn't an evil act. 

  
But all behavior has a physical cause.   

All physics is an experiential effect. 
  
So I'm ok with just dropping the term 'evil' and just referring to good/bad for 
individuals and good/bad for society as derivative.  But I think it's a 
hangover from theodicy to refer to human actions as evil but not natural events 
- it's part of the idea that humans are apart from nature. 


I agree that dropping the term 'evil' as a formal term is the more enlightened 
way to go. I don't have a problem with it as an informal hyperbole that is 
reserved for intentionally cruel behavior though. I think that we can separate 
intentional human cruelty as a class of attitudes and effects unlike any other, 
though I would not apply any supernatural significance.   

I would say that there is a hidden hypocrisy in allowing no expectation of self 
control on the part of individuals while taking it for granted that exactly 
that kind of moral control is  to be expected from a law enforcing society 
composed of those same individuals. If it's not evil for an axe murderer to 
execute people at random, how can it be evil for a society to call that person 
evil and seek to execute them? If we want to be humane toward outlaws that's 
fine, but I don't think that we should do it out of the assumption that human 
behaviors are under no more human control than storms and earthquakes.   

Craig 



Brent 
Ethics is, at bottom, the art of recommending to others the 
self-sacrifice necessary to cooperate with ourselves. 
      --- Bertrand Russell 

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