Hi Craig Weinberg
All of your quotes are very good advice.
What's your point ?
[Roger Clough], [[email protected]] <mailto:[email protected]]>
1/3/2013
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
----- Receiving the following content -----
*From:* Craig Weinberg <mailto:[email protected]>
*Receiver:* everything-list <mailto:[email protected]>
*Time:* 2013-01-03, 08:47:13
*Subject:* Re: What Hell is like
On Thursday, January 3, 2013 6:06:42 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg
It doesn't matter whether you have good or bad intentions.
The law and God judge us by what we do. You do the crime,
you do the time.
I'll let the Bible speak for itself, if that is the God you are talking
about:
Timothy 1:5
<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+1%3A5&version=ESV>
The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good
conscience
and a sincere faith.
Timothy 6:10
<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+6%3A10&version=ESV>
"For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this
craving
that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many
pangs. "
Hebrews 12:14
<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+12%3A14&version=ESV>
Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one
will see
the Lord.
Timothy 3:13
<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Timothy+3%3A13&version=ESV>
While evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and
being
deceived.
Philippians 4:8
<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+4%3A8&version=ESV>
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is
just,
whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is
any
excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.
Philippians 1:15-18
<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+1%3A15-18&version=ESV>
Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will.
The
latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the
gospel.
The former proclaim Christ out of rivalry, not sincerely but thinking to
afflict me
in my imprisonment. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense
or in
truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice. Yes, and I will rejoice,
Ephesians 2:8-9
<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+2%3A8-9&version=ESV>
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own
doing; it
is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 2:5
<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+2%3A5&version=ESV>
But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for
yourself
on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.
You sin, you go to Hell.
If you repent, you go to Heaven.
Personally, I believe
that the "eternal torture" of Hell is not to be able to feel God's
love and forgiveness. That would be Hell to a Jesus. He
refers to being tossed out and undergoing a "weeping and
gnashing of teeth".
Hindus and Buddhists believe in reincarnation, which from
what we observe, is not always a pleasant life.
Personally I believe that Hell and Heaven are metaphors which extrapolate
the
ordinary high and low moods of human consciousness to a super-significance.
God is a
metaphor in the exact same way - an algebraic concept of X = Infinite
proprietary
superlatives. If you are in a world of competing polytheistic deities, each
the
representation of a personal superlative or sphere of influence (God of
war, Goddess
of beauty, etc), then the invention of a supreme ultimate deity who trumps
all
others in all categories is an excellent political strategy. It's a
convenient way
to consolidate allegiance and direct everyone's personal insecurities to a
mass
psychology solution.
[Roger Clough], [[email protected] <javascript:>]
1/3/2013
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Craig Weinberg
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-01-02, 20:24:14
Subject: Re: The evolution of good and evil
On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 6:21:27 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
On 1/2/2013 2:24 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
That really has nothing to do with Evil though, except in sloppy
reasoning. True
Evil is about intentionally initiating social harm. Getting smallpox is
not
evil, it is just unfortunate. Giving someone blankets known to be
infected with
smallp
On the contrary it is sloppy ethics to confine 'evil' to intentional
social
harm. First, it implies that socially bad is bad simpliciter, but
values are
ultimately personal values.
Speaking of sloppy. I'm not sure what that was intended to say.
Without some
explanation of why you say that evil is other than intentional social
harm, it
sounds like you are just saying that you disagree.
Second, it implies that as soon as we find a physical cause (he was
drunk, he
had YY chromosmes, his father beat him) for a behavior it's not longer
evil.
It implies that only to those who think that personal intention is not a
physical cause in its own right. Just because someone was drunk when
they commit
an evil act doesn't mean that it wasn't an evil act.
But all behavior has a physical cause.
All physics is an experiential effect.
So I'm ok with just dropping the term 'evil' and just referring to
good/bad for
individuals and good/bad for society as derivative. But I think it's a
hangover
from theodicy to refer to human actions as evil but not natural events
- it's
part of the idea that humans are apart from nature.
I agree that dropping the term 'evil' as a formal term is the more
enlightened
way to go. I don't have a problem with it as an informal hyperbole that
is
reserved for intentionally cruel behavior though. I think that we can
separate
intentional human cruelty as a class of attitudes and effects unlike
any other,
though I would not apply any supernatural significance.
I would say that there is a hidden hypocrisy in allowing no expectation
of self
control on the part of individuals while taking it for granted that
exactly that
kind of moral control is to be expected from a law enforcing society
composed
of those same individuals. If it's not evil for an axe murderer to
execute
people at random, how can it be evil for a society to call that person
evil and
seek to execute them? If we want to be humane toward outlaws that's
fine, but I
don't think that we should do it out of the assumption that human
behaviors are
under no more human control than storms and earthquakes.
Craig
Brent
Ethics is, at bottom, the art of recommending to others the
self-sacrifice necessary to cooperate with ourselves.
--- Bertrand Russell
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