On 1/17/2013 7:28 PM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote:



On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 10:31 PM, Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com <mailto:agocor...@gmail.com>> wrote:

    You have to prove that the CO2 is the main ingredient of global
    warming. Not me.


Ok. So Greenhouse effect is "alarmist fantasy" to you. This makes things clearer.

     But it is not.  It is water vapor by orders of magnitude. And the
    water vapor concentration, and the clouds depends on cosmic rays,
    and cosmic rays depend on solar activity and the variation on the
    earth orbit. The hockey stick (false) is of temperatures. And
    temperatures are falling now, like were falling in the 70s. The
    most likely evolution is towards a new ice age, as you can see
    clearly in the  graphic.

    CO2 do no predict increase of temperatures, it is just
    the contrary  You can verify that in the graphic. increase of
    temperature precedes CO2 increase. This is caused by the increased
    erosion or carbonate rocks in the litosphere and the liberation of
    CO2 by oceans when temperature raises.  The causes of the cycles
    that you see in the graphic are due to the orbit of earth around
    the sun, there is no CO2 causation but the opposite. the
    correlation exist, but the causation is just the reverse to the
    promoted by the alarmists.

    Natural sources of CO2 exceed the antropogenic production by
    orders of magnitude. a single eruption can produce more CO2 than
    the entire human population in a year.


You're right in that it's naturally messy enough.

But so what? 313 ppm in 1960 to 390 ppm in 2010, with current measured amount of CO2 exceeding geological maximum values; I just don't see the logic of adding to this mindlessly by burning more black stuff. I do see the plausibility of shooting for long term energy solutions that add, burn, or otherwise muck around with the fragile global ecology, our only home at the moment, less. And I'm open to all of it, hemp prominently included, provided that we burn/waste less in the long run.

No final solutions. These problems will not leave, regardless of our capacity to deny infinitely.

PGC
------
PGC,

Your making a straw man argument, mate! Even if we stipulate as a fact that "...current measured amount of CO2 exceeding geological maximum values", this does nothing to force decisions such as how not to "muck around with the fragile global ecology". It is the home of all of us, not jush some elite few that wish the rest us us to stop breathing. I have read the papers of the alarmist with eyes wide open, there is lots of discussion of how to "reduce populations" and so forth. There is even chatter about "crimes against nature" tribunals for those that "deny the consensus science". Science must be eternally skeptical of being subservient to politics. The need to perpetually get grant money for research has perverted science, IMHO.

--
Onward!

Stephen

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