Roger,

On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:

> Hi Platonist Guitar Cowboy
>
> It's not that complicated. The Revelation of John foretells the coming
> apocalypse.
>
> St Augustine and anybody else has to stick with that book, like it or not,
> unless, of course, liberalism has already destroyed you.
>
>
1) I don't buy the "conservative v. liberal narratives" from US
perspective.

2) You're not serious with the Christian or monad values you hype:

- Jesus implies sharing, Roger posts "greed is good".

- Jesus and Leibniz tend towards immaterialism, Roger prays to acquisition
of wealth for its own sake

- Jesus and Leibniz are clear on solidarity and compassion to groups, Roger
is not liberal/socialist.


Nobody is perfect, but this is definitely pushing it in the Kierkegaard
sense of (I paraphrase)

"90% of those that go to Church or call themselves Christian do not really
have faith- they use faith politically. Preaching one thing and doing
opposite. They are not really concerned with working on themselves or for
the arrival of the Kingdom of the lord. If they were, they'd pose less for
vanity's sake, speak less, and do more. For instance, it doesn't concern
most Christians that we haven't tackled the problem of good and evil
sufficiently, and although the bible gives us pointers, there are many deep
open problems such as this, that most Christians are in denial of, and that
our holy book only begins to address."

I think that that is a profound, open Christian attitude, granted with
flaws here and there, but still open enough for serious inquiry.

So please refrain from pulling the personal faith card on us, because I for
one just can't decide which Roger I am reading: the Christian, the
conservative, or to return to topic, the guy who is untroubled by making a
mess on his Lord's earth if it's for greed's sake, which is good etc. This
undermines discussion of the issue.

PGC
------



> [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
> 1/18/2013
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
> ----- Receiving the following content -----
> From: Platonist Guitar Cowboy
> Receiver: everything-list
> Time: 2013-01-17, 15:39:54
> Subject: Re: The unpredictability of solar energy
>
>
> Alberto,
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 9:27 PM, Alberto G. Corona  wrote:
>
> This is in fact the return to primitive cults to the mother earth, the
> feeder, that give us resources from his pregnant belly. It is exactly that.
> only that instead of vegetabless and game, it is minerals and energy and
> "biodiversity".
>
> I have to say that the utopism/apocalipticism is a perversion of
> christianity that had its justification in the spectations of primitive
> cristianity, but Saint Agustine reinterpreted it well to avoid its
> revolutionary and disturbing character. Joaquin de Fiore, broke with the
> agustinian interpretation and proposed a new age of?pirituality?n earth.
> This reinterpretation is widely?dmitted?y most historians as the foundation
> of modernity. The evangelical movements, the French revolution,
> the?ommunism?nd the current environmentalism are the derivations of this
> expectancy in ever increasing degrees of radicalism and inmanentism. ?
>
>
> Once the distorted?hristian?ects, first,?nd then the grand ideologies
> passed by, the only remain in the resulting nihilism are the primitive
> atavic cults that return naturally back, permeated by the
> distorted?hristian?spirations and all other rests of the shipwreck.
>
>
> Eric Voegelin is the great philosopher that more deeply studied the spirit
> of modernity as a consequence of the helenic and christian roots. I
> recommend "The new science of Politics".?
>
>
> It seems like the mix of fear and desire for the extraordinary grows with
> the repression of magic in ordinary life. Magic is dangerous because it
> promotes?yranny?nd manipulation, and the repression of magic allows an
> scientific study of reality, and for this matter the christian spirit gave
> science and, for the first time in history, applied science. But the desire
> for the extraordinary persist.?
>
>
>
> The apocalypse myth has been with every generation. Attacking it has
> nothing to do with finding flaws in the work of Hansen and co. Not my area
> of expertise, but from what I read, as far as we know, it's as solid as we
> can get. If everybody that tries to frame facts critically with available
> data is alarmist, then how can do you save criticism?
>
> PGC
> ------
>
>
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