On 06 Feb 2013, at 11:13, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
2013/2/5 Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net>
Hi Alberto G. Corona
Your concept is incomplete, because geometry is what Plato called
forms,
which he gave the Greek name of ideas. So you have a thought
without a thinker.
Yes, the greeks did not conceive an empty space without forms. For
them it was the forms what created the space. They did no studied
space geometry but the geometry of the forms. They did not conceived
the infinite space. They don´t liked the concept,
That's true for the earlier greeks, but with Plotinus (300 after JC),
infinity became respectable, both for matter and god.
According with Spengler, this concept came from the nordic mithology
and solidified in the Gothic architecture.
The greek concept is more primitive and therefore, is much more
intuitive and natural, because it descries space by what it is for:
to perceive things and appreciate distances, proportions and shapes.
Which I think is the correct and even modern (current) conception of
space (and time).
Bruno
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From: Alberto G. Corona
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-02-04, 15:09:16
Subject: Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie
I think that geometry is a form of accelerated calculation and
presentation of distances and angles by/in the mind, of the external
mathematical reality.�
Within this mental geometrical representation, 爓e locate the rest
of the elements of the mathematical reality that are relevant for
survival, they are, the qualia. And this is what whe perceive as
"reality", that apears to be "out there".
I mean 3D geometry. any other geometry either is mentaly transated
to 3D by projections or else, must be calculated non intuitively
(non accelerated) 燽y means of algebraic formulas.
However, I imagine that an advanced robot with fast spatial
processing (based of algebraic formulas) would pass the turing test
when asked about geometrical figures in space. It can even answer:
"geometry is intuitive form me. My father-engineer gave me a good
floating point coprocessor and good spatial algorithms.
but there is a self reference when we try to imagine how the brain
or a computer process geometry, and we imagine them embedded in the
space and time that they create, which is not a correct intuition.
we must imagine it in no time and no space. IMHO.
2013/2/4 Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>
On Monday, February 4, 2013 12:01:38 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 01 Feb 2013, at 22:09, Craig Weinberg wrote:
I have mentioned this before, but it keeps haunting me.
If geometry did not exist.
Could you invent it with mathematics alone?
And if you could do that...
Why would you?
For instance: A triangle can be defined mathematically in different
ways, but without the inherently geometric presentations of lines
and angles, it seems that all you could generate is a description
of a set of values which have the same relation as the values which
would be present if a geometric shape were measured or sampled from
optical or tactile detections.
That is not to say that the list of mathematical definitions which
satisfy triangularity (a^2 + b^2 = c^2 for example), even an
exhaustive list, would suggest anything like the visible presence
of a shape. All of the mathematics can be done completely in the
dark, and no realism of points, plots, displays, manifolds,
topologies, etc, ever need to literally appear to anything.
We don't know that.
We don't know that we don't know that.
Craig
Bruno
So why do they?
Craig
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