On 2/23/2013 7:57 AM, John Mikes wrote:
Brent:
my answer is simple, indeed:
we have only PARTIAL knowledge about anything,

Sure. But that doesn't prevent true beliefs. I believe there's a refrigerator in my kitchen. Am I certain - no. Am I right - yes.

accumulating over millennia (and probably continuing to do so) - consequently ALL we can cite as PROOF is based on such partial view, subject to improvement (change?) later on.
This is why I prefer the conditional voice in conclusions.

That's why I said 'depending on the standard of proof'. There are many propositions which are 'proven' enough that I'm willing to act on them. Mathematical proofs are certain - unfortunately they aren't necessarily true because they are only conditional on the axioms.

My essay dissappeared from the WEB when the carrier ISP discontinued it (Prodigy) around 2003 (without notice). I have a copy I consider a bit obsolete in my ongoing views, I will e-mail it to you in a private mail. I hope it goes through.

I'll look forward to it.

Brent


John M

On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 4:57 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net <mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote:

    John, you have referred to your essay a few times but I have never seen it. 
 Is it
    available on the web somewhere?

    I wonder what you mean by "There is no ideally correct case."?  Do you mean 
it is
    never the case that a belief is provable (I might agree with that - 
depending on the
    standard of proof).  Do you mean it is never the case that a belief is true 
(I
    disagree with that).  Or do you mean that neither of these is ideal?

    Brent


    On 2/21/2013 1:00 PM, John Mikes wrote:
    (I THINK: Brent):
    But then, according to you, if they happen to be true they are knowledge.
    (I THINK: Bruno):
    Yes, but "we" can't know that.
    (again I THINK Brent:)
    I'd say it's the other way around, scientists have no beliefs, only 
hypotheses.
    (again I THINK Bruno:) I define "belief" by "hypothesis" or "derived from
    hypotheses". That's why in the ideally correct case, belief = provable. 
This works
    because provable does not entail truth.

    JM: There is NO ideally correct case. I define 'belief' as being possibly 
based on
    hearsay as well (religious etc.)
    (May I refer to my 2000 essay: Science - Religion, several times quoted on 
these
    pages).
    JM


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