On 3/7/2013 4:15 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:

On 08/03/2013, at 2:58 AM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com <mailto:whatsons...@gmail.com>> wrote:

        I must disagree. It is baked into the topology of classical
    mechanics that a system cannot semantically act upon itself.
    There is no way to define intentionality in classical physics.
    This is what Bruno proves with his argument.

Exactly Stephen. What are we talking about here? How is a deterministic system that has preferences and makes choices and considers options different from free will. If something can have a private preference which cannot be determined from the outside, then it is determined privately, i.e. the will of the private determiner.

As I said, it depends on how you define "free will".

    It is also not logically inconsistent with choice and free
    will,  unless you define these terms as inconsistent with
    determinism, in which case in a deterministic world we would
    have to create new words meaning pseudo-choice and pseudo-free
    will to avoid misunderstanding, and then go about our business
    as usual with this minor change to the language.

        So you say...

Yeah, right. Why would a deterministic world need words having anything to do with choice or free will? At what part of a computer program is something like a choice made? Every position on the logic tree is connected to every other by unambiguous prior cause or intentionally generated (pseudo) randomness. It makes no choices, has no preferences, just follows a sequence of instructions.

In general, the existence of words for something does not mean it has an actual referent; consider "fairy" or "God". An adequate response to your position is that you're right - we don't really have choices. Another response is that your definition of "choice" is not the only possible one.

How is linguistic analysis going to help your case? You seem to miss the point that it is not the symbols on the page that 'contain' meaningfulness, it is your mental act of interpretation from whence the meaning emerges. Without a conscious mind you are as much a zombie as John Clark and his mechanical pony.



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