Bruno, thanks for the consenting remarks to my post. HOWEVER....
you wrote:

*"...Some non-toxic and non-addictive drugs provokes NDE or alike. Anyone,
with a few practice, can see by itself.*
*
*
*I have a theory that salvia might go farer, and be a genuine DEAD
experience. You have the choice to stay there, and they send a copy of you
on earth. This does not contradict comp, because the copy, despite being
fully conscious all the time, get your memory back slowly, so that the copy
feels becoming "you", but "you" can see your "original self" staying there.
This is frequent in the salvia reports (the copy effect, or the max effect
as I call it in the entheogen.net forum)*
*
*
.*With comp the NDE is predictable, and the logic G and G* can be described
as the logic of the near inconsistency state, which is the normal logic of
the self-referentially correct machine (there are cul-de-sac accessible
from any state). In a sense, life is a near death experience all along.
What is still amazing, and might contradict comp, is that we can live NDE
or DE and come back with some realist memories of the event. .."*
*
*
Who told you about "a real???" NDE? Live people imagine various fables.
Congrats to your 'theory' about Salvia, - still within your imagination.
Fable, I could say, about the "COPY", the "SENDING  B A C K  to Earth, etc.
etc. All
these are good for discussions on the Everything list - no merit in my
opinion.
I tried to get 'entheogen.net': Google did not find it.
Nobody "CAME BACK" from a real NDE or DE especially not with REALIST
Memories. Fantasies - maybe.
Sorry, Bruno, I don't want to spoil your game or good feeling. Just chat.

John Mikes


On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 6:32 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

>
> On 05 Apr 2013, at 21:39, John Mikes wrote:
>
> I think I side with Craig: NDE is not "N" enough, is not "D" because the
> 'observer' (gossiper?) came "back" and not "E" - rather a compendium
> of hearsay (s)he stored previously about "D"-like phenomena.
> When a (human or other) complexity dissolves (= death) nobody comes back
> to tell the stories. This comes from a 'participant' and long time partner
> in OUIJA-board sessions of honest friends. I still cannot explain those
> miraculous experiences (saved my life once) coming allegedly from 'dead'
> benefactors I knew before they died.
>
> I do not support the reference to the BIG journals (had ~100 publications,
> some in such, then was editor of a 'smaller' one) - it is 'click-stuff' and
> refereed by well selected (opinionated) scientists mostly.
>
>
> I agree. "impact factor" and "big name" leads to self-sustained argument
> per authority.
>
>
>
> However the reference to the Nobel prize lost its credibility e.g. with
> certain (peace)Prize assignment going to a war-monger politician.
>
>
> I agree very much. Despite I was inclined to believe that Obama might make
> some progressive change, I find absurd to give a price before seeing him
> doing anything.
> I will ask for the Nobel prize in medicine and I will promised to the work
> after :)
>
> Since then Obama has signed the NDAA bill, which is a mysterious
> frightening fact, and since he is in power, he has killed many civilians by
> using the drones in an unprecedented manner, may be there should be
> something like a withdrawal of price (that happened to me, BTW!).
>
>
>
> Even in sciences it occurred that hypothetical and fantasy-based ideas
> were awarded the Prize
>
>
> Indeed. But that's OK. Big genius are the one saying big stupidities.
>
>
>
>
> (e.g. circumstances of the Big Bang etc.). Not to mention the questionable
> lit.
>
> What does an agnostic like myself believe? that we don't know 'it'.
>
>
> Some non-toxic and non-addictive drugs provokes NDE or alike. Anyone, with
> a few practice, can see by itself.
>
> I have a theory that salvia might go farer, and be a genuine DEAD
> experience. You have the choice to stay there, and they send a copy of you
> on earth. This does not contradict comp, because the copy, despite being
> fully conscious all the time, get your memory back slowly, so that the copy
> feels becoming "you", but "you" can see your "original self" staying there.
> This is frequent in the salvia reports (the copy effect, or the max effect
> as I call it in the entheogen.net forum).
>
> With comp the NDE is predictable, and the logic G and G* can be described
> as the logic of the near inconsistency state, which is the normal logic of
> the self-referentially correct machine (there are cul-de-sac accessible
> from any state). In a sense, life is a near death experience all along.
> What is still amazing, and might contradict comp, is that we can live NDE
> or DE and come back with some realist memories of the event.
>
> The crash investigation reports gives interesting reports on third person
> person NDE. You can see the beneficial effect on some people.
>
> Good to stay agnostic. The fun consists in trying theories and testing
> them, not in taking any of them as a truth, ever.
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> John M
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 3:56 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Apr 4, 2013  Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Dull in what way?
>>>
>>
>> Dull in the way that reading what some Bozo I've never heard of typed
>> onto a obscure website about experimental results that would revolutionize
>> not just science but the entire world if true are dull.
>>
>> > You didn't read the article I guess
>>
>>
>> I have not read it nor do I intend to; let me know when something like
>> that shows up in Science or Nature or Physical Review letters.
>>
>>   John K Clark
>>
>>
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>
> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>
>
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