On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

>
> On 01 May 2013, at 00:19, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
>
> Telmo said:
>
> *Just like religions, nations are an artefact from an era when there
> wasn't anything better to scaffold civilisation. They are becoming
> especially ridiculous in the Internet age.*
> Telmo I often agree with you, but I can not avoid to smail at this.
> Religion is not something outside the man that it can get rid of. It is an
> internal and vital faculty of the human mind. If you have only a nation,
> you have nationalism, that is a religion. If you have only Internet people
> will develop a religion around internet perhaps a bloody religion. Simply
> because we have legs, we want to walk, and we have a religious instinct, we
> need religion. legs are for running from predators. Religion is for
> coordination. cut the legs of a person and a it can not walk. deprive
> people from religion and they will develop their primitive-form-of religion
> and recent history in communist countries tell that again and again. And
> primitive religions are ALL bloody by the very nature of human society.
>
> I am religious you are religious everyone is religious because neither you
> neither me can extirpate the mental circuitery. Live with it and take care
> about which content do you accept in a religious way. And reflect yoursef
> about what is what you believe in the deep, what are your comunity of
> believer and either if you treat the other people in a fair way or you are
> a dogmatic blind to facts.
>
> Everyone blame about the beliefs of others. Now is time to think in the
> ones own. And everyone has a religion. Full stop.
>
>
> Every digital machine, or relative number, has a quite rich theology,
> whose propositional part is already ell well described mathematically, at
> the propositional level, by a modal logic (G*) and its intensional variants.
>
> And the result is that the theology is far closer to Plato's one, than
> Aristotle's one. The physical reality is but a border of something else.
>
> Now theology is the most fundamental science, and it is normal the
> politics try to control it by 'violence', as it gives a quasi infinite
> amount of freedom, and they fear losing control. Nature does that all the
> time too, it is part of life. It is an eternal conflict.
>
> About nation, and internet, things will change, for reason appearing here,
> as an example:
>
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/22/silk-road-online-drug-marketplace
>
> (Thanks to those who provide me with this important link).
>
> Bruno
>
>
I agree, and Bitcoin is "only the beginning".

Other competing virtual currencies with their own improvements and
disadvantages have since cropped up: in 2011 "Litecoins" were started, last
year "PPCoins" was launched... The only thing stopping people from taking
financial matters into their own hands is their own trust in said
currencies, that would increasingly immunize them more from fluctuations
due to speculation on conversion you see today.

And the more these currencies are used for everyday transactions and web
business, the better they will shield personal privacy of financial matters
for their users; not limited to enabling things like silk road, but
preventing your insurance company/government from looking up/buying your
online identity to brazenly discriminate against groups of people on
whatever political or monetary grounds/agendas they see fit. Insurances are
already blacklisting, even where illegal, against cancer patients etc.
Cryptography and online security literacy of users appear as helpers of
democracy, these days.

For now, many holders of these currencies are not bothered by the
fluctuations in conversion as "they intend to stay". We'll see how
governments, banks etc. react in the coming years. I don't know which
currencies/virtual economies will turn out to be stable/reliable in the
long run, but I do know that a government quest to contain or control these
would be as ridiculous as closing a pornography website and claiming you
have control over pornography on the internet.

But they do raise interesting questions about our surfing habits, privacy,
and the ways in which we do business + their implications. They question
"how systemically relevant" certain financial institutions are, as people
are apparently engaging the risk of new currencies and different ways to
conceive of, frame, and practice business and trade. PGC


>
>
>
>
> 2013/4/29 Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
>
>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:21 PM, John Mikes <jami...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > And what good does it do to   H A V E  nations? Starting wars? Looking
>> down
>> > on every other nation? Exploiting strangers/foreigners?
>> > Nationalism is a pest in the human world.
>> > You are right saying that it is - sort of - a religious aberration,
>> closely
>> > connected with religion itself. So the proposition may be true.
>> > Could anyone LIST the benefits of 'national' existence/feeling?
>> > (Forget about the secondaries: mother tongue, folk-music, lit, etc.)
>> > JM
>>
>> Well said John!
>> Just like religions, nations are an artefact from an era when there
>> wasn't anything better to scaffold civilisation. They are becoming
>> especially ridiculous in the Internet age.
>>
>> I would tolerate them better if you could migrate freely and chose the
>> one you like the most (in terms of laws, for example). Then they would
>> have to compete for citizens, and politicians would have a harder time
>> getting away with the sort of shenanigans they do nowadays --
>> criminalisation of victimless behaviours, legislation on the private
>> sphere, unreasonable wars, humiliation in name of safety and so on.
>> The concept of "others" is very important to enslave the masses.
>>
>> Telmo.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> This is like economic laws. If we talk about short and long term
>> effects
>> >> mixed, there is nothing that can be understood.
>> >>
>> >>   In the short time, a crisis trigger humans to enhance social capital
>> by
>> >> adhering to the common values (which are ever religious of some kind)
>> This
>> >> enhances mutual help and a decrease of conflcts due to discrepancy of
>> >> individualistic goals. It is a sort of emergency mode.
>> >>
>> >> In the long term, by the same reasons, a group of people that loose its
>> >> common religious values loose the informal mechanisms of coordination
>> and is
>> >> going to death, since these values (that  are ultimately religious)
>> are much
>> >> more important and are the foundation of the formal ones.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 2013/4/22 Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
>> >>>
>> >>> On the other hand, belief in god seems to correlate with economic
>> >>> collapse:
>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_belief_in_god.svg
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> > Former KGB Agent explains: The destruction of America from within
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Nations die when they lose their religion.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWlyt2ldKw
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013
>> >>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013
>> >>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough
>> >>> >
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