PGC and Bruno, I couldn't agree more. Bitcoins are a glimmer of hope in this bleak point in History we are currently at. Every time I read an article stating that bitcoins are a toy currency, my hope is renewed that they will fly under the radar for long enough to grow up to a point where the bandits will no longer be able to stop them -- in a similar way to what happened with the Internet (although they're still trying, of course).
On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 5:43 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > > On 01 May 2013, at 16:00, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: > > > > > On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: >> >> >> On 01 May 2013, at 00:19, Alberto G. Corona wrote: >> >> Telmo said: >> >> Just like religions, nations are an artefact from an era when there >> wasn't anything better to scaffold civilisation. They are becoming >> especially ridiculous in the Internet age. >> Telmo I often agree with you, but I can not avoid to smail at this. >> Religion is not something outside the man that it can get rid of. It is an >> internal and vital faculty of the human mind. If you have only a nation, you >> have nationalism, that is a religion. If you have only Internet people will >> develop a religion around internet perhaps a bloody religion. Simply because >> we have legs, we want to walk, and we have a religious instinct, we need >> religion. legs are for running from predators. Religion is for coordination. >> cut the legs of a person and a it can not walk. deprive people from religion >> and they will develop their primitive-form-of religion and recent history in >> communist countries tell that again and again. And primitive religions are >> ALL bloody by the very nature of human society. >> >> I am religious you are religious everyone is religious because neither you >> neither me can extirpate the mental circuitery. Live with it and take care >> about which content do you accept in a religious way. And reflect yoursef >> about what is what you believe in the deep, what are your comunity of >> believer and either if you treat the other people in a fair way or you are a >> dogmatic blind to facts. >> >> Everyone blame about the beliefs of others. Now is time to think in the >> ones own. And everyone has a religion. Full stop. >> >> >> Every digital machine, or relative number, has a quite rich theology, >> whose propositional part is already ell well described mathematically, at >> the propositional level, by a modal logic (G*) and its intensional variants. >> >> And the result is that the theology is far closer to Plato's one, than >> Aristotle's one. The physical reality is but a border of something else. >> >> Now theology is the most fundamental science, and it is normal the >> politics try to control it by 'violence', as it gives a quasi infinite >> amount of freedom, and they fear losing control. Nature does that all the >> time too, it is part of life. It is an eternal conflict. >> >> About nation, and internet, things will change, for reason appearing here, >> as an example: >> >> >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/22/silk-road-online-drug-marketplace >> >> (Thanks to those who provide me with this important link). >> >> Bruno >> > > I agree, and Bitcoin is "only the beginning". > > Other competing virtual currencies with their own improvements and > disadvantages have since cropped up: in 2011 "Litecoins" were started, last > year "PPCoins" was launched... > > > Interesting. > > > > The only thing stopping people from taking financial matters into their own > hands is their own trust in said currencies, that would increasingly > immunize them more from fluctuations due to speculation on conversion you > see today. > > And the more these currencies are used for everyday transactions and web > business, the better they will shield personal privacy of financial matters > for their users; not limited to enabling things like silk road, but > preventing your insurance company/government from looking up/buying your > online identity to brazenly discriminate against groups of people on > whatever political or monetary grounds/agendas they see fit. Insurances are > already blacklisting, even where illegal, against cancer patients etc. > Cryptography and online security literacy of users appear as helpers of > democracy, these days. > > > I think so. Cryptography has a long future. > > > > For now, many holders of these currencies are not bothered by the > fluctuations in conversion as "they intend to stay". We'll see how > governments, banks etc. react in the coming years. > > > CISPA and other words with a lot "A", apparently. > > > > I don't know which currencies/virtual economies will turn out to be > stable/reliable in the long run, but I do know that a government quest to > contain or control these would be as ridiculous as closing a pornography > website and claiming you have control over pornography on the internet. > > > In the long run, but the bandits will defend their (fake) money. Prohibition > was a fatal error. I think it is too late for them, but they will still make > things hard ... > > > > But they do raise interesting questions about our surfing habits, privacy, > and the ways in which we do business + their implications. They question > "how systemically relevant" certain financial institutions are, as people > are apparently engaging the risk of new currencies and different ways to > conceive of, frame, and practice business and trade. PGC > > > All that is very interesting, and gives some hope for fair and genuine > competitions. We are only at the beginning of the beginning. Nothing will be > simple, and some cyber-conflicts will develop. > > Bruno > > > > > > >> >> >> >> >> >> 2013/4/29 Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:21 PM, John Mikes <jami...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > And what good does it do to H A V E nations? Starting wars? Looking >>> > down >>> > on every other nation? Exploiting strangers/foreigners? >>> > Nationalism is a pest in the human world. >>> > You are right saying that it is - sort of - a religious aberration, >>> > closely >>> > connected with religion itself. So the proposition may be true. >>> > Could anyone LIST the benefits of 'national' existence/feeling? >>> > (Forget about the secondaries: mother tongue, folk-music, lit, etc.) >>> > JM >>> >>> Well said John! >>> Just like religions, nations are an artefact from an era when there >>> wasn't anything better to scaffold civilisation. They are becoming >>> especially ridiculous in the Internet age. >>> >>> I would tolerate them better if you could migrate freely and chose the >>> one you like the most (in terms of laws, for example). Then they would >>> have to compete for citizens, and politicians would have a harder time >>> getting away with the sort of shenanigans they do nowadays -- >>> criminalisation of victimless behaviours, legislation on the private >>> sphere, unreasonable wars, humiliation in name of safety and so on. >>> The concept of "others" is very important to enslave the masses. >>> >>> Telmo. >>> >>> > >>> > >>> > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Alberto G. Corona >>> > <agocor...@gmail.com> >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> This is like economic laws. If we talk about short and long term >>> >> effects >>> >> mixed, there is nothing that can be understood. >>> >> >>> >> In the short time, a crisis trigger humans to enhance social capital >>> >> by >>> >> adhering to the common values (which are ever religious of some kind) >>> >> This >>> >> enhances mutual help and a decrease of conflcts due to discrepancy of >>> >> individualistic goals. It is a sort of emergency mode. >>> >> >>> >> In the long term, by the same reasons, a group of people that loose >>> >> its >>> >> common religious values loose the informal mechanisms of coordination >>> >> and is >>> >> going to death, since these values (that are ultimately religious) >>> >> are much >>> >> more important and are the foundation of the formal ones. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> 2013/4/22 Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> On the other hand, belief in god seems to correlate with economic >>> >>> collapse: >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_belief_in_god.svg >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> > Former KGB Agent explains: The destruction of America from within >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Nations die when they lose their religion. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWlyt2ldKw >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 >>> >>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 >>> >>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough >>> >>> > >>> >>> > -- >>> >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> >>> > Groups >>> >>> > "Everything List" group. >>> >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>> >>> > send >>> >>> > an >>> >>> > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> > To post to this group, send email to >>> >>> > everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> > Visit this group at >>> >>> > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> >>> Groups >>> >>> "Everything List" group. >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>> >>> send an >>> >>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> To post to this group, send email to >>> >>> everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> Visit this group at >>> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Alberto. >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> >> Groups >>> >> "Everything List" group. >>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> >> an >>> >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> >> Visit this group at >>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> > Groups >>> > "Everything List" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> > an >>> > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> > Visit this group at >>> > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> > >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Alberto. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
