PGC and Bruno, I couldn't agree more. Bitcoins are a glimmer of hope in this bleak point in History we are currently at. Every time I read an article stating that bitcoins are a toy currency, my hope is renewed that they will fly under the radar for long enough to grow up to a point where the bandits will no longer be able to stop them -- in a similar way to what happened with the Internet (although they're still trying, of course).
On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 5:43 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 01 May 2013, at 16:00, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: > > > > > On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> On 01 May 2013, at 00:19, Alberto G. Corona wrote: >> >> Telmo said: >> >> Just like religions, nations are an artefact from an era when there >> wasn't anything better to scaffold civilisation. They are becoming >> especially ridiculous in the Internet age. >> Telmo I often agree with you, but I can not avoid to smail at this. >> Religion is not something outside the man that it can get rid of. It is an >> internal and vital faculty of the human mind. If you have only a nation, you >> have nationalism, that is a religion. If you have only Internet people will >> develop a religion around internet perhaps a bloody religion. Simply because >> we have legs, we want to walk, and we have a religious instinct, we need >> religion. legs are for running from predators. Religion is for coordination. >> cut the legs of a person and a it can not walk. deprive people from religion >> and they will develop their primitive-form-of religion and recent history in >> communist countries tell that again and again. And primitive religions are >> ALL bloody by the very nature of human society. >> >> I am religious you are religious everyone is religious because neither you >> neither me can extirpate the mental circuitery. Live with it and take care >> about which content do you accept in a religious way. And reflect yoursef >> about what is what you believe in the deep, what are your comunity of >> believer and either if you treat the other people in a fair way or you are a >> dogmatic blind to facts. >> >> Everyone blame about the beliefs of others. Now is time to think in the >> ones own. And everyone has a religion. Full stop. >> >> >> Every digital machine, or relative number, has a quite rich theology, >> whose propositional part is already ell well described mathematically, at >> the propositional level, by a modal logic (G*) and its intensional variants. >> >> And the result is that the theology is far closer to Plato's one, than >> Aristotle's one. The physical reality is but a border of something else. >> >> Now theology is the most fundamental science, and it is normal the >> politics try to control it by 'violence', as it gives a quasi infinite >> amount of freedom, and they fear losing control. Nature does that all the >> time too, it is part of life. It is an eternal conflict. >> >> About nation, and internet, things will change, for reason appearing here, >> as an example: >> >> >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/22/silk-road-online-drug-marketplace >> >> (Thanks to those who provide me with this important link). >> >> Bruno >> > > I agree, and Bitcoin is "only the beginning". > > Other competing virtual currencies with their own improvements and > disadvantages have since cropped up: in 2011 "Litecoins" were started, last > year "PPCoins" was launched... > > > Interesting. > > > > The only thing stopping people from taking financial matters into their own > hands is their own trust in said currencies, that would increasingly > immunize them more from fluctuations due to speculation on conversion you > see today. > > And the more these currencies are used for everyday transactions and web > business, the better they will shield personal privacy of financial matters > for their users; not limited to enabling things like silk road, but > preventing your insurance company/government from looking up/buying your > online identity to brazenly discriminate against groups of people on > whatever political or monetary grounds/agendas they see fit. Insurances are > already blacklisting, even where illegal, against cancer patients etc. > Cryptography and online security literacy of users appear as helpers of > democracy, these days. > > > I think so. Cryptography has a long future. > > > > For now, many holders of these currencies are not bothered by the > fluctuations in conversion as "they intend to stay". We'll see how > governments, banks etc. react in the coming years. > > > CISPA and other words with a lot "A", apparently. > > > > I don't know which currencies/virtual economies will turn out to be > stable/reliable in the long run, but I do know that a government quest to > contain or control these would be as ridiculous as closing a pornography > website and claiming you have control over pornography on the internet. > > > In the long run, but the bandits will defend their (fake) money. Prohibition > was a fatal error. I think it is too late for them, but they will still make > things hard ... > > > > But they do raise interesting questions about our surfing habits, privacy, > and the ways in which we do business + their implications. They question > "how systemically relevant" certain financial institutions are, as people > are apparently engaging the risk of new currencies and different ways to > conceive of, frame, and practice business and trade. PGC > > > All that is very interesting, and gives some hope for fair and genuine > competitions. We are only at the beginning of the beginning. Nothing will be > simple, and some cyber-conflicts will develop. > > Bruno > > > > > > >> >> >> >> >> >> 2013/4/29 Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:21 PM, John Mikes <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > And what good does it do to H A V E nations? Starting wars? Looking >>> > down >>> > on every other nation? Exploiting strangers/foreigners? >>> > Nationalism is a pest in the human world. >>> > You are right saying that it is - sort of - a religious aberration, >>> > closely >>> > connected with religion itself. So the proposition may be true. >>> > Could anyone LIST the benefits of 'national' existence/feeling? >>> > (Forget about the secondaries: mother tongue, folk-music, lit, etc.) >>> > JM >>> >>> Well said John! >>> Just like religions, nations are an artefact from an era when there >>> wasn't anything better to scaffold civilisation. They are becoming >>> especially ridiculous in the Internet age. >>> >>> I would tolerate them better if you could migrate freely and chose the >>> one you like the most (in terms of laws, for example). Then they would >>> have to compete for citizens, and politicians would have a harder time >>> getting away with the sort of shenanigans they do nowadays -- >>> criminalisation of victimless behaviours, legislation on the private >>> sphere, unreasonable wars, humiliation in name of safety and so on. >>> The concept of "others" is very important to enslave the masses. >>> >>> Telmo. >>> >>> > >>> > >>> > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Alberto G. Corona >>> > <[email protected]> >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> This is like economic laws. If we talk about short and long term >>> >> effects >>> >> mixed, there is nothing that can be understood. >>> >> >>> >> In the short time, a crisis trigger humans to enhance social capital >>> >> by >>> >> adhering to the common values (which are ever religious of some kind) >>> >> This >>> >> enhances mutual help and a decrease of conflcts due to discrepancy of >>> >> individualistic goals. It is a sort of emergency mode. >>> >> >>> >> In the long term, by the same reasons, a group of people that loose >>> >> its >>> >> common religious values loose the informal mechanisms of coordination >>> >> and is >>> >> going to death, since these values (that are ultimately religious) >>> >> are much >>> >> more important and are the foundation of the formal ones. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> 2013/4/22 Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> >>> >>> >>> >>> On the other hand, belief in god seems to correlate with economic >>> >>> collapse: >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_belief_in_god.svg >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Roger Clough <[email protected]> >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> > Former KGB Agent explains: The destruction of America from within >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Nations die when they lose their religion. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWlyt2ldKw >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 >>> >>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 >>> >>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough >>> >>> > >>> >>> > -- >>> >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> >>> > Groups >>> >>> > "Everything List" group. >>> >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>> >>> > send >>> >>> > an >>> >>> > email to [email protected]. >>> >>> > To post to this group, send email to >>> >>> > [email protected]. >>> >>> > Visit this group at >>> >>> > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> >>> Groups >>> >>> "Everything List" group. >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>> >>> send an >>> >>> email to [email protected]. >>> >>> To post to this group, send email to >>> >>> [email protected]. >>> >>> Visit this group at >>> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Alberto. >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> >> Groups >>> >> "Everything List" group. >>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> >> an >>> >> email to [email protected]. >>> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> >> Visit this group at >>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> > Groups >>> > "Everything List" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> > an >>> 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[email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at 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