Hi Alberto,

I agree with everything you say, it's just one of the many cases of
assigning different meanings to the same word. Maybe I should have
said fundamentalism. I still don't like the term though, because it
assigns a negative connotation to the concept of "the fundamentals"
and that's tricky.

What I mean by religion is the type of human institution that imposes
beliefs, more specifically totalitarian beliefs on things that one
cannot possibly be sure about. This then leads to imposing behaviours
on other people: you should not enjoy sex, you should not smoke
certain plants, women should be covered in blankets and so on.
Stalinism is religion in my sense. The current mainstream narrow
interpretation of science is religion in my sense.

I understand religious experiences in your sense. I get them, for
example, from listening Pink Floyd's "The Dark Side of the Moon",
under certain circumstances.

"All that you touch
All that you see
All that you taste
All you feel.
All that you love
All that you hate
All you distrust
All you save.
All that you give
All that you deal
All that you buy,
beg, borrow or steal.
All you create
All you destroy
All that you do
All that you say.
All that you eat
And everyone you meet
All that you slight
And everyone you fight.
All that is now
All that is gone
All that's to come
and everything under the sun is in tune
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon."

Telmo.

On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 12:19 AM, Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Telmo said:
>
> Just like religions, nations are an artefact from an era when there
> wasn't anything better to scaffold civilisation. They are becoming
> especially ridiculous in the Internet age.
> Telmo I often agree with you, but I can not avoid to smail at this. Religion
> is not something outside the man that it can get rid of. It is an internal
> and vital faculty of the human mind. If you have only a nation, you have
> nationalism, that is a religion. If you have only Internet people will
> develop a religion around internet perhaps a bloody religion. Simply because
> we have legs, we want to walk, and we have a religious instinct, we need
> religion. legs are for running from predators. Religion is for coordination.
> cut the legs of a person and a it can not walk. deprive people from religion
> and they will develop their primitive-form-of religion and recent history in
> communist countries tell that again and again. And primitive religions are
> ALL bloody by the very nature of human society.
>
> I am religious you are religious everyone is religious because neither you
> neither me can extirpate the mental circuitery. Live with it and take care
> about which content do you accept in a religious way. And reflect yoursef
> about what is what you believe in the deep, what are your comunity of
> believer and either if you treat the other people in a fair way or you are a
> dogmatic blind to facts.
>
> Everyone blame about the beliefs of others. Now is time to think in the ones
> own. And everyone has a religion. Full stop.
>
>
> 2013/4/29 Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:21 PM, John Mikes <jami...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > And what good does it do to   H A V E  nations? Starting wars? Looking
>> > down
>> > on every other nation? Exploiting strangers/foreigners?
>> > Nationalism is a pest in the human world.
>> > You are right saying that it is - sort of - a religious aberration,
>> > closely
>> > connected with religion itself. So the proposition may be true.
>> > Could anyone LIST the benefits of 'national' existence/feeling?
>> > (Forget about the secondaries: mother tongue, folk-music, lit, etc.)
>> > JM
>>
>> Well said John!
>> Just like religions, nations are an artefact from an era when there
>> wasn't anything better to scaffold civilisation. They are becoming
>> especially ridiculous in the Internet age.
>>
>> I would tolerate them better if you could migrate freely and chose the
>> one you like the most (in terms of laws, for example). Then they would
>> have to compete for citizens, and politicians would have a harder time
>> getting away with the sort of shenanigans they do nowadays --
>> criminalisation of victimless behaviours, legislation on the private
>> sphere, unreasonable wars, humiliation in name of safety and so on.
>> The concept of "others" is very important to enslave the masses.
>>
>> Telmo.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> This is like economic laws. If we talk about short and long term
>> >> effects
>> >> mixed, there is nothing that can be understood.
>> >>
>> >>   In the short time, a crisis trigger humans to enhance social capital
>> >> by
>> >> adhering to the common values (which are ever religious of some kind)
>> >> This
>> >> enhances mutual help and a decrease of conflcts due to discrepancy of
>> >> individualistic goals. It is a sort of emergency mode.
>> >>
>> >> In the long term, by the same reasons, a group of people that loose its
>> >> common religious values loose the informal mechanisms of coordination
>> >> and is
>> >> going to death, since these values (that  are ultimately religious) are
>> >> much
>> >> more important and are the foundation of the formal ones.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 2013/4/22 Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
>> >>>
>> >>> On the other hand, belief in god seems to correlate with economic
>> >>> collapse:
>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_belief_in_god.svg
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> > Former KGB Agent explains: The destruction of America from within
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Nations die when they lose their religion.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWlyt2ldKw
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013
>> >>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013
>> >>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough
>> >>> >
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