On 09 May 2013, at 21:29, John Mikes wrote:
Bruno I stand corrected. You wrote:
"Randomness exists in math. Indeed the vast majority of numbers
written in any base is random (incompressible). But there are no
evidence at all of random 3p phenomenon in nature, and to bet on
them seems like abandoning research."
I accept math-randomness in form of: TAKE ANY NUMBER.
OK, nice.
Here is my favorite random sequence of digits:
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000...
And I am not joking! It is just the extremely good (or bad) luck
sequence. Of course that one is compressible, unlike most possible
sequences. But you are right and "any" is a form of randomness, somehow.
Then again I consider 'math' a product of the human mind.
I can't help myself to think you might perhaps confuse 'human math'
with 'math'.
Anyway, with comp I need to *assume* elementary arithmetic, if only to
define what is a computation, and then I define or search to recover
the human mind in that setting.
Assuming the human mind itself would be anthropomorphic, and would
assume what I want to explain to myself and perhaps others.
Bruno
John M
On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 4:44 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 08 May 2013, at 17:35, meekerdb wrote:
On 5/8/2013 1:20 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 07 May 2013, at 20:55, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, May 6, 2013 John Mikes <[email protected]> wrote:
> there is no random decay or anything else
There is no way you can deduce that from pure reason and the
experimental evidence strongly indicates that you are wrong
about that.
> only things that happen without our - so far - accessed
explanation.
And thanks to experiments involving Bell's inequality we know for
a fact that if apparently random things happen for a reason they
can't be local reasons; for example the reason the coin came up
heads right now is because a billion years in the FUTURE a
butterfly like creature on a planet in the Andromeda Galaxy
flapped it's wings twice instead of 3 times.
You assume the collapse of the wave.
I don't think that requires a wave function collapse, it's
explained by Everett's MWI also, which is a kind of non-local
hidden variable.
Why non local? There is nothing non local in Everett's MWI.
There are experimental evidences against it, and there are no
experimental evidence of any randomness other than some FPI, on
the branch of a universal wave, or, as we need with comp, on
arithmetic.
To believe in events without cause or reason is ... pseudo-religion.
No it's just the other sect; opposite the one that believes there
can be no randomness.
Randomness exists in math. Indeed the vast majority of numbers
written in any base is random (incompressible). But there are no
evidence at all of random 3p phenomenon in nature, and to bet on
them seems like abandoning research.
It is a belief in something without any evidences, to introduce
unsolvable problem on purpose.
Evidence is always relative to some theory.
But no theories suggest 3p randomness in nature. Comp and Everett
explains appearance of randomness, but they are particular case of
the FPI, and are not 3p, only 1p (hopefully plural).
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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