On 09 May 2013, at 19:39, John Clark wrote:

On Thu, May 9, 2013  Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com> wrote:

> Roulette wheels are not random, they can be modeled as Newtonian mechanisms, exactly like cuckoo clocks.

No they are not exactly alike. A tiny change in a cuckoo clock causes a tiny change in the clock's performance, but a tiny change in the roulette wheel causes a HUGE change in the wheel's performance, and conceivably the change might be so small that we're talking about a quantum event. And if you don't like roulette then a electronic circuit that detects shot noise or a Geiger counter.

> You can accept that true randomness is fundamental, and thus, not explainable

I can accept that it is conceivable. I do not think that nature is obligated to arrange things in such a way that human beings can always understand them.

> but the MWI and Bruno's FPI provide a compelling contrary hypothesis.

I like the MWI because it doesn't have to explain what a observer or a observation is not because it gets rid of randomness. Personally I don't see much difference between saying something happened for no cause and saying something happened for a cause that can't ever be detected even in theory. And to tell you the truth I can't keep up with Bruno's homemade acronyms and terms and have quite forgotten what "FPI" even stands for.


FPI is "First Person Indeterminacy".

You are the only one having a problem with this (step 3 of UDA), except Bill who has a problem with comp (step 0 of UDA). (And the comp I talk about is a weakening and more precise definition of the antic mechanist conception of mind and life). It is used by Deutsch, Everett, most (weak and strong) materialists, and is the object of many studies. It just the idea that the we can survive with a mechanical artificial brain, like we think we can survive with an artificial heart.

Comp is opposed to fake pseudo-religion and is sometimes sum up by "no magic". Then I show that comp leads to the realization that we did have a magical conception of matter, and that we must dispense with it, leading to a testable explanation of where and how the physical laws emerged.

I think Brett is right in his motivation question. Your deeply contradictory attitude about the FPI masks some deep religious prejudices that you seem not even being aware of.

You and Bill confirmed very precisely my statement that the vindicative strong atheists are the one unable to go out of the Christian Aristotelian theological foundations.

Bruno






And speaking of profound mysteries, why isn't acronym a acronym? Hey wait a minute it is! Arranged Chronological Reassignment Of Names You Manipulate; acronym for short.

  John K Clark






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