From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 12:58 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: When will a computer pass the Turing Test?
On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> The computer requires a substrate in which to operate upon -- the CPU
chips for example are what our computers operate on. I know of no computer
that does not require this external structured environment
The human requires a substrate in which to operate upon -- the brain for
example is what our human minds operate on. I know of no human that does
not require this external structured environment.
Yes. and?
> Every computer in existence requires external enabling hardware.
>>Every human in existence requires external enabling hardware.
Yes but humans are not universal computing machines, if indeed we are
machines. Do we know enough about how our brains work and are structured to
the level that we would need to in order to be able to answer that question
with any degree of certainty? I was referring to the hypothesized
deterministic universe, in which everything that has happened can be
computed from the initial state and has followed on from that original set
of conditions. that we live in a deterministic universe and that everything
that has or will ever happen is pre-destined and already baked in to the
unfolding fabric of our experiencing of reality.
If a computer operates from within a local frame of reference and context,
but far from being isolated and existing alone is instead connected to much
vaster environments and meta-processes that are potentially very loosely
coupled -- based on in direct means such as say message passing through
queues or other signals - then can its own outputs be said to be completely
deterministic - even if we consider its own internal operations to be
constrained to be deterministic? Operations, especially ones that are parts
of much larger workflows etc. are being mutated by many actors and
potentially with sophisticated stripe locking strategies, for example,
having their data stores being accessed concurrently by multiple separate
processes. There are just so many pseudo random and hard to predict or model
occurrences - such as say lock contention - that are occurring at huge rates
(when seen from sufficiently high up any large architecture)
I find it hard to see how the resulting outcomes produced by such kinds of
systems can be determined based on a knowledge of the state of the system at
some initial instant in time.
> If a computer requires a substrate which it can manipulate in order to
perform its logical operations then a universal computer is impossible
because the substrate would necessarily be outside and foundational to its
domain.
>>If a human requires a substrate which it can manipulate in order to
perform its logical operations then a universal human is impossible because
the substrate would necessarily be outside and foundational to its domain.
Agreed. Humans are exceedingly far from being universal. Our very sense of
self precludes universality.
Cheers,
-Chris
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