Hi Chris

>> if in the end it is an infinitely regressing hall of mirrors, a cosmic 
>> illusion – why the elaborate and evolutionarily expensive (multiple levels 
>> of adaption) masquerade ball in which we all participate?

As far as I can tell there is no cosmic illusion of free will. I'm my opinion 
whether we have free will or not is under-determined by what we see and 
experience, in a similar way that the way the world looks under-determines a 
heliocentric or geocentric astronomy. How would it look if the sun orbited the 
earth? The sun would move across the sky just as it would if the earth orbited 
the sun. How would it feel if the determinists/indeterminists were right and we 
didn't have free will. Exactly as things actually feel. The case is 
under-determined.

However, free will is a pillar of western culture and theology. It underpins 
our justice system because it is believed that responsibility depends upon 
actions being undertaken freely. It underpins our theology, freewill being at 
the basis of the Fall in Genesis; not to mention underpinning the idea of sin. 
So from the get go people , even those who are not that religious,  grow up 
absorbing the idea of free will. This is where the strong unwillingness to 
abandon it comes from. It isn't a cosmic illusion, it is an artifact of 
cultural history.

Not all cultures are underpinned by the idea of free will. Buddhist societies 
will to varying degrees find the concept very alien. I very much doubt that 
people who have grown up in those cultures are possessed of this 'cosmic 
illusion', yet their day to day phenomenology will be more or less the same as 
yours or mine.

All the best

From: cdemorse...@yahoo.com
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: When will a computer pass the Turing Test?
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 12:37:48 -0700

Exactly – do you think I am trying to pretend that I am deterministic within my 
own self? I accept that my experience of consciousness is  a post facto 
artifact of my mind, which has already produced and rendered the experience I 
am just experiencing in perhaps its entirety. And all my decisions and free 
will could be the result of a grand illusion, but even if this is so one has to 
– if one is curious about the nature of things – ask why the elaborate charade? 
Why has evolution invested so much energy in erecting such a perfect rendition 
of this facsimile of free will that is the common sense experience that we all 
experience within ourselves?Seems like a lot of effort for nothing; which is 
why I question your reductionist view of this – even if in the end it is an 
infinitely regressing hall of mirrors, a cosmic illusion – why the elaborate 
and evolutionarily expensive (multiple levels of adaption) masquerade ball in 
which we all participate?Seems a bit much for nothing.-Chris From: 
everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 12:17 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: When will a computer pass the Turing Test? On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 
1:32 PM, Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com> wrote: > What happens to a 
universal Turing machine, if the tape itself is being written by some other 
process The same thing that happens to you when you get pushed around by the 
external environment.  John K Clark -- 
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