On 14 Oct 2013, at 20:13, Craig Weinberg wrote:

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On Sunday, October 13, 2013 5:03:45 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: All object are conscious? No objects are conscious.

We agree on this.

Not at all. It is here and now. I have already interview suchmachines.Are there any such machines available to interview online?

`I can give you the code in Lisp, and it is up to you to find a good`

`free lisp. But don't mind too much, AUDA is an integral description of`

`the interview. Today, such interviews is done by paper and pencils,`

`and appears in books and papers.`

`You better buy Boolos 1979, or 1993, but you have to study more logic`

`too.`

It is almost applicable, but the hard part is that it is blind toits own blindness, so that the certainty offered by mathematicscomes at a cost which mathematics has no choice but to denycompletely. Because mathematics cannot lie,G* proves <>[]f Even Peano Arithmetic can lie. Mathematical theories (set of beliefs) can lie. Only truth cannot lie, but nobody know the truth as such.Something that is a paradox or inconsistent is not the same thingas an intentional attempt to deceive. I'm not sure what 'G* proves<>[]f' means but I think it will mean the same thing to anyone whounderstands it, and not something different to the boss than it doesto the neighbor.

`Actually it will have as much meaning as there are correct machines (a`

`lot), but the laws remains the same. Then adding the non-monotonical`

`umbrella, saving the LĂ´bian machines from the constant mistakes and`

`lies they do, provides different interpretation of []f, like`

I dream, I die, I get mad, I am in a cul-de-sac I get wrong etc. It will depend on the intensional nuances in play.

it cannot intentionally tell the truth either, and no matter howsophisticated and self-referential a logic it is based on, it cannever transcend its own alienation from feeling, physics, andauthenticity.That is correct, but again, that is justifiable by all correctsufficiently rich machines.Not sure I understand. Are you saying that we, as rich machines,cannot intentionally lie or tell the truth either?

`No, I am saying that all correct machines can eventually justify that`

`if they are correct they can't express it, and if they are`

`consistent, it will be consistent they are wrong. So it means they can`

`eventually exploits the false locally. Team of universal numbers get`

`entangled in very subtle prisoner dilemma.`

Universal machines can lie, and can crash. Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.