On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:47 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Quote - "Environment Problem an amusing story about a demon giving a man an
> advance glimpse of Hell, was collected in Space 1, an anthology edited by
> Richard Davis."
>
> "Wireheading" is of course a term taken from Larry Niven's "known space"
> stories, Gil Hamilton and the ARM and so on.

Thanks Liz!

>
>
> On 21 October 2013 22:39, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 12:54 AM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > This is explored in (amongst other places) the final chapter of "A
>> > history
>> > of the world in 10 1/2 chapters". (The converse is explored in a short
>> > story
>> > by Michael Moorcock about someone who goes to Hell and finds it quite
>> > pleasant after a while.)
>>
>> Liz, thanks for the sci-fi references. I love reading such things.
>> Any idea on where the Michael Moorcock story was published? When I was
>> a kid and had to attend catholic Sunday school, I was terrified of
>> heaven -- it sounded boring and oppressive. Also Sunday school
>> prevented me from watching Battlestar Galactica (the original series).
>> I suspect this was the seed of my deep resentment towards organized
>> religion.
>>
>> Best,
>> Telmo.
>>
>> > This is also discussed in literature on Utopias generally (probably
>> > going
>> > back to someone like Plato) - the problem with "wireheading" is that it
>> > omits some of the supposedly necessary features of utopian existence
>> > e.g.
>> > breadth and vividness. So although one might be unable to escape it if
>> > placed in this situation, that doesn't mean one would choose it (since
>> > when
>> > *not* perpetually blissed out, one can see its inadequacies).
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 21 October 2013 07:43, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sunday, October 20, 2013 6:53:41 AM UTC-4, telmo_menezes wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> > Another way of approaching human emulation.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Step 1: Manufacture an inexpensive biofeedback monitor that you plug
>> >>> > into
>> >>> > your internet enabled device.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Step 2: Braindora reads up your personal data and compares it
>> >>> > against a
>> >>> > huge
>> >>> > database of other people’s data, looking for matches.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Step 3. Meanwhile, Braindora keeps monitoring what you are looking
>> >>> > at
>> >>> > online
>> >>> > while it tracks your brain data, comparing your history of what you
>> >>> > find and
>> >>> > how it makes you feel. Matches that correlate to mood improvement,
>> >>> > on
>> >>> > both a
>> >>> > short term and long term basis are flagged.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Step 4: Braindora offers to take over your web browsing, steering
>> >>> > your
>> >>> > computer/TV/Ipod/game system automatically to sources which are most
>> >>> > statistically likely to be successful in improving the indicators in
>> >>> > ‘people
>> >>> > who probably feel like you do’.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Step 5: Customers, who are now virtually incapable of being bored,
>> >>> > can
>> >>> > go to
>> >>> > the next level and browse social networks for bio-compatible matches
>> >>> > in
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > same way.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Step 6: Gradually all lifestyle decisions can be ported to the
>> >>> > system,
>> >>> > ensuring that that everything that you eat, buy, do, or experience
>> >>> > is
>> >>> > optimized at least a little better than you could do on your own.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Step 7: The entire process will be recorded and fed back into the
>> >>> > system so
>> >>> > that it can be compressed into an algorithm which can be pushed back
>> >>> > to
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > customer’s transcranial magnetic stimulation device.  As a result,
>> >>> > everyone
>> >>> > will feel like they have a great and constantly improving life, even
>> >>> > as
>> >>> > they
>> >>> > degenerate into pulpy masses of human squash.
>> >>>
>> >>> If this was possible, wouldn't you choose it? If not, why not?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I might choose it personally, but that is only because my personhood is
>> >> defined by its deprivations. If I were the universe, an ontology of
>> >> masturbation is a dead end.
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I have a recurring similar discussion with a friend: suppose you could
>> >>> be put in a capsule on life support and given a steady supply of a
>> >>> drug that makes you feel pure bliss for the rest of your natural life.
>> >>> Would you agree? If not, why not?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I don't think that is actually possible. The intellect can conceive of
>> >> monotonous bliss, but that does not mean that is the way that bliss
>> >> could
>> >> work. A bliss that you cannot escape from is ultimately a prison. Our
>> >> understanding of sensation points to relation of contrasts, not to
>> >> mechanical absolutes. Feelings are living responses to meaningful
>> >> conditions. We quickly adapt to euphoria, build a tolerance, become
>> >> bored.
>> >> There may not be any such thing as a bliss which cannot fade into
>> >> misery
>> >> eventually. If there were, I think it would constitute a kind of
>> >> universal
>> >> halting, just as strong addiction can suspend normal social functions.
>> >>
>> >> Craig
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> >
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