On 21 Oct 2013, at 23:17, Russell Standish wrote:

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 05:01:50PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote:

Nevertheless,
you do think there must be some strong indicators why a continuous
(well at least local changes only) conscious path exists between all
conscious states. What is that?

By what I called (with a wrong terming) agnosologic path: where each
time you lost a mental feature, you lost also the mental reference
to it, so you "don't see any difference".

This involves amnesia, and I don't use that in UDA or AUDA. But I
can also "think" and "discuss" like most participant in the list, on
the larger domain than my thesis !


Ah - I probably missed what you were trying to say earlier. To follow
on from your "agnosologia", I would hesitate to guess that
consciousness somehow involves feedback loops.

Me too for the raw consciousness (which I suspect in insects).
But reflexive consciousness (Löbianity" perhaps) contains already many sorts of loop, like with the fixed point theorem. The term feedback might be a bit vague to compare, I am not sure.






To make another
analogy, if I take a network, if sufficiently dense, it will have
cycles (loops), where if you follow the links from a given vertex, you
will end up back where you start from.

If you start removing links, the number of cycles drops, until
eventually no cycles are left. That will most likely occur around the
percolation threshold of the network, which is about 62% link density
(62% of possible links are actually present) IIRC.

Interesting.
But note that whatever person is related to that network, it is "in reality" related to an infinity of arithmetical relations emulated the network, and he survives more or less everywhere there is a computational path where the guy estimate to survive from its point of view. This leads to complex question as it involves the surviving of amnesia. Here I think that comp allows different opinions, religions, and medical/spiritual practice. When people will have artficial brain, some will expand it, other will shrunk or reduce it.




ISTM one loses consciousness (loss of all feedback loops)

Ah! OK. You do link consciousness and feedback loop.



well before
losing sufficient memories (the links) to be able to merge into another
person. This is essentially the reason fading qualia-style arguments
don't impress me.

Of course this is not a proof. For that, I suspect we need a better
theory of consciousness. But I'm seeing your analogy, and raising one :).

I think comp leads to make consciousness being the mental state of 1) believing in some reality, and 2) the existence of that reality. It might be an instinctive bet on a reality. It does provide computational speed-up and can augment the relative degrees of freedom. Universal number looking inward can hardly miss seeing this (even if seeing that machines can do that is more difficult, but what Gödel, Turing, Church did when seen from the computationalist perspective.

Bruno





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Prof Russell Standish                  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Principal, High Performance Coders
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University of New South Wales          http://www.hpcoders.com.au
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