2013/10/31 John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com>
> On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com>wrote:
> >> I think this entire matter could be clarified if you could reformulate
>>> the following question in such a way that a simple yes or no answer can be
>> "Do you die if two exact copies of Quentin Anciaux in Helsinki are
>>> made, one in Moscow and one in Washington and then the Helsinki body
>>> instantly destroyed?"
>> > This is not what is asked
> It's the question I asked!
You do not have to choose the question to attack bruno's one... you either
answer his and proceed, or you do not and abandon MWI for the same reason.
> I don't give a damn if I see Moscow or Washington, I care if I live or
The point is about step 3 and for you to proceed to step 4 or not... I
don't give a damn about what you give a damn.
> and I suspect you are more interested in that question too. And if you
> could reformulate that question (never mind the answer) so that it was
> clear to you i might understand what you're talking about.
> > what is asked is the probability to see moscow, likewise when you
>> measure the spin of the electron, the question is the probability you
>> measure spin up
> As I said before there is a profound difference between the two. After
> Everett's thought experiment is over only ONE person
No, in everett experiment like in the duplication experiment after the
experiment there are two you, if you deny this, you deny *MW*I (as in
> is seen by a third party so it's easy to determine who "you"
The experience as nothing to do about who is you *simply look at the
> is and easy to determine if predictions about what "you" will see were
> right or wrong, but with Bruno's thought experiment TWO people can be
> clearly seen that have a equal right to the title "you" which means that
> the predictions about what "you" will see are useless. And another
> difference is that Everett was talking about prediction and probability,
> and neither has anything to do with identity or a sense of self.
> > both question are *valid* and have simple answer which is 0.5.
> No, only one question is valid. In Everett's case we know who "you" is,
> it's the only fellow we see. In Bruno's case right now we see 2 people
> clear as a bell and both are called "you" and both saw different things,
> and that makes meaningless the question asked yesterday "what is the
> probability "you" will see X?".
> Not that predictions, good bad or meaningless, have anything to do with a
> sense of self.
> >> Does the fellow who remembers being in Helsinki die if two exact
>>> copies of the fellow in Helsinki are made, one in Moscow and one in
>>> Washington, and then the Helsinki body instantly destroyed?
>>> I would answer the question with a simple "no" without the need for
>>> further explanations or caveats,
>> > That is still not the question asked. The question is about
>> probability. The easiest way to rephrase it, is [...]
> Stop telling me how simple it is to rephrase the question and actually
> rephrase it. Rephrase that question into a sentence so that the question is
> clear to you (we'll worry about the answer another time) and then maybe
> what you're talking about will be clear to me.
> > simply to look at the diary, and simply by repeating the experience and
>> looking at the result of the diary you can infer the frequency of 0.5 and
>> the correct probability.
> A diary is of absolutely no value in this matter because the diary was
> written by "you" yesterday and today I'm looking at 2 people who have a
> equal right to be called "you" because they both remember being the
> Helsinki Man yesterday.
> John K Clark
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