On 28 Dec 2013, at 05:27, Stephen Paul King wrote:
Hi LizR and Jason,
Responding to both of you. I don't understand the claim of
determinism is "random noise" is necessary for the computations.
Turing machines require exact pre-specifiability. Adding noise
oracles is cheating!
But it exist in arithmetic. Subtracting it would be cheating. the
silmple counting algorith generates all random finite strings (random
in the strong Chaitin sense).
Almost all numbers are random, when written in some base. And you can
define the notion of base *in* arithmetic, so they exist in all models
of arithmetic. We can't subtract them.
Bruno
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:22 PM, LizR <[email protected]> wrote:
On 28 December 2013 17:15, Jason Resch <[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:06 PM, LizR <[email protected]> wrote:
Clearly programmes don't have to be deterministic. They could
contain a source of genuine randomness, in principle.
That source, if it is within the program, would necessarily be
deterministic. If it is external to the program, then it is more
properly treated as an input to the program rather than a part of
the program itself.
In practice, computers draw on sources of environmental noise such
as delays between keystrokes, timing of the reception of network
traffic, and delays in accessing data off of hard drives, etc. These
steps are necessary precisely because programs cannot produce
randomness on their own.
I knew that - honest! :-)
I was answering the question as posed. I believe that in practice
all real-world programmes are deterministic, and (more to the point)
the UD is.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in
the Google Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/sqWzozazMg0/unsubscribe
.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to [email protected]
.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
Kindest Regards,
Stephen Paul King
Senior Researcher
Mobile: (864) 567-3099
[email protected]
http://www.provensecure.us/
“This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the
use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may
contain information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged,
confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may
be constituted as attorney work product. If you are not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this message in error, notify
sender immediately and delete this message immediately.”
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
