Hi Jason, I would like to know the definition of "reality" that you are using here. Here is mine: *That which is incontrovertible for some collection of observers that can communicate*. This definition requires interactions and thus requires some form of primitive becoming. Platonia does not change. Explain why there is an appearance of change that does not involve some reference to the natural ordering of the integers. Please.
Once we allow for Godel numbers, how can we still claim to use the natural order of the integers? We have already shown that a random sequence of numbers is a computation. Where do we find a "random sequence" in the naturally ordered string of Integers? On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:58 PM, Jason Resch <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:53 PM, Stephen Paul King < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi LizR, >> >> This is fun! :-) We must remember that we are defining People as >> intersections of infinitely many computations. Right? Their perceptions of >> themselves as physical being having some particular set of configuration, >> for example bilateral symmetry, etc. is not really relevant to UDA. So, if >> there is a change in accessibility to data, facts, etc. Where is that >> "change" coming from". >> >> This is my problem: We are presented with an argument that works in >> Platonia and we have no explanation as to the relation it has with the >> "real world" where things change and degrade and evolve, etc. What is >> measuring that change? >> > > If the argument is correct there is no other reality but Platonia. The > "real world" is a product of the computations in platonia. > > Jason > > >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:49 PM, LizR <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On 28 December 2013 17:46, Stephen Paul King <[email protected] >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> Ah, but they do degrade. Consider your ability to access a '80s floppy >>>> drive's data. >>>> >>>> Well, that's because people haven't worked out how to do it perfectly. >>> I agree digital archaeology is a real problem, but so would analogue be >>> without the relevant machines to play it back (admittedly it's easier to >>> decode analogue from first principles). But that is a different form of >>> degrading. If you have a system capable of copying the data it should be >>> more or less 100% accurate. >>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:44 PM, LizR <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 28 December 2013 17:41, Jason Resch <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:27 PM, Stephen Paul King < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi LizR and Jason, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Responding to both of you. I don't understand the claim of >>>>>>> determinism is "random noise" is necessary for the computations. Turing >>>>>>> machines require exact pre-specifiability. Adding noise oracles is >>>>>>> cheating! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> I think you misunderstand. Computers are deterministic, but they >>>>>> often need randomness to implement things such as cryptography or >>>>>> monte-carlo simulations, etc. Due to this need for true >>>>>> unpredictability, >>>>>> our computers must harness environmental noise if they are to have any >>>>>> hope >>>>>> of being unpredictable. This is because computers cannot generate >>>>>> unpredictability on their own. >>>>>> >>>>>> They are engineered not to! This is why digital recordings don't >>>>> degrade, etc. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>>>> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/sqWzozazMg0/unsubscribe >>>>> . >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Kindest Regards, >>>> >>>> Stephen Paul King >>>> >>>> Senior Researcher >>>> >>>> Mobile: (864) 567-3099 >>>> >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> http://www.provensecure.us/ >>>> >>>> >>>> “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use >>>> of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain >>>> information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and >>>> exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as >>>> attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient, you are >>>> hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of >>>> this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this >>>> message in error, notify sender immediately and delete this message >>>> immediately.” >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/sqWzozazMg0/unsubscribe >>> . >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>> [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Kindest Regards, >> >> Stephen Paul King >> >> Senior Researcher >> >> Mobile: (864) 567-3099 >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://www.provensecure.us/ >> >> >> “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of >> the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain >> information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and >> exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as >> attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient, you are >> hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of >> this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this >> message in error, notify sender immediately and delete this message >> immediately.” >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/sqWzozazMg0/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- Kindest Regards, Stephen Paul King Senior Researcher Mobile: (864) 567-3099 [email protected] http://www.provensecure.us/ “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, notify sender immediately and delete this message immediately.” -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
