On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 12:03 AM, Stephen Paul King < [email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Jason, > > I would like to know the definition of "reality" that you are using > here. > Reality I normally define as "that which exists". > Here is mine: *That which is incontrovertible for some collection of > observers that can communicate*. > So if there was a lone being in a universe would that being not have a reality? Is there no reality for deaf, illiterate, mutes? > This definition requires interactions and thus requires some form of > primitive becoming. Platonia does not change. Explain why there is an > appearance of change that does not involve some reference to the natural > ordering of the integers. Please. > It's not the natural ordering of the integers, but the natural ordering of each step in the states of a computation. Though, even this does not necessarily guarantee a "time-like" experience. To experience time as we do requires some memory and comparison between different states, and perhaps some ignorance of future states. > > > Once we allow for Godel numbers, how can we still claim to use the natural > order of the integers? > I wasn't using this. > We have already shown that a random sequence of numbers is a computation. > When? > Where do we find a "random sequence" in the naturally ordered string of > Integers? > It is not clear to me what you are asking. Jason > > > > On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:58 PM, Jason Resch <[email protected]>wrote: > >> >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:53 PM, Stephen Paul King < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi LizR, >>> >>> This is fun! :-) We must remember that we are defining People as >>> intersections of infinitely many computations. Right? Their perceptions of >>> themselves as physical being having some particular set of configuration, >>> for example bilateral symmetry, etc. is not really relevant to UDA. So, if >>> there is a change in accessibility to data, facts, etc. Where is that >>> "change" coming from". >>> >>> This is my problem: We are presented with an argument that works in >>> Platonia and we have no explanation as to the relation it has with the >>> "real world" where things change and degrade and evolve, etc. What is >>> measuring that change? >>> >> >> If the argument is correct there is no other reality but Platonia. The >> "real world" is a product of the computations in platonia. >> >> Jason >> >> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:49 PM, LizR <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> On 28 December 2013 17:46, Stephen Paul King < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ah, but they do degrade. Consider your ability to access a '80s floppy >>>>> drive's data. >>>>> >>>>> Well, that's because people haven't worked out how to do it perfectly. >>>> I agree digital archaeology is a real problem, but so would analogue be >>>> without the relevant machines to play it back (admittedly it's easier to >>>> decode analogue from first principles). But that is a different form of >>>> degrading. If you have a system capable of copying the data it should be >>>> more or less 100% accurate. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:44 PM, LizR <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 28 December 2013 17:41, Jason Resch <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:27 PM, Stephen Paul King < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi LizR and Jason, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Responding to both of you. I don't understand the claim of >>>>>>>> determinism is "random noise" is necessary for the computations. Turing >>>>>>>> machines require exact pre-specifiability. Adding noise oracles is >>>>>>>> cheating! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think you misunderstand. Computers are deterministic, but they >>>>>>> often need randomness to implement things such as cryptography or >>>>>>> monte-carlo simulations, etc. Due to this need for true >>>>>>> unpredictability, >>>>>>> our computers must harness environmental noise if they are to have any >>>>>>> hope >>>>>>> of being unpredictable. This is because computers cannot generate >>>>>>> unpredictability on their own. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> They are engineered not to! This is why digital recordings don't >>>>>> degrade, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>> the Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/sqWzozazMg0/unsubscribe >>>>>> . >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>>> . >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Kindest Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Stephen Paul King >>>>> >>>>> Senior Researcher >>>>> >>>>> Mobile: (864) 567-3099 >>>>> >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> http://www.provensecure.us/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use >>>>> of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain >>>>> information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and >>>>> exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as >>>>> attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient, you are >>>>> hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of >>>>> this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this >>>>> message in error, notify sender immediately and delete this message >>>>> immediately.” >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>>> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/sqWzozazMg0/unsubscribe >>>> . >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>> [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Kindest Regards, >>> >>> Stephen Paul King >>> >>> Senior Researcher >>> >>> Mobile: (864) 567-3099 >>> >>> [email protected] >>> >>> http://www.provensecure.us/ >>> >>> >>> “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use >>> of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain >>> information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and >>> exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as >>> attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient, you are >>> hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of >>> this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this >>> message in error, notify sender immediately and delete this message >>> immediately.” >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/sqWzozazMg0/unsubscribe >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > > > -- > > Kindest Regards, > > Stephen Paul King > > Senior Researcher > > Mobile: (864) 567-3099 > > [email protected] > > http://www.provensecure.us/ > > > “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of > the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain > information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and > exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as > attorney work product. 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