On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Edgar L. Owen <edgaro...@att.net> wrote:
> Of course not. Characters in video games are not real. They know nothing,
> and have zero consciousness.
1. Do you believe an atom-for-atom replacement of you would be conscious?
2. Do you believe replacing your neurons one-by-one with synthetic
(non-biological but fully functional) neurons would result in you losing
3. Do you believe if these synthetic neurons communicated wirelessly with a
computer to decide whether or not to fire you would still be conscious?
4. Do you believe if the computer contained the mapping of all the
synthetic neurons inside a file on its disk (rather than it being stored as
a structure inside your skull) that the computer decisions would still be
5. Do you think the calculations performed entirely in this computer
program would be any less conscious than when it was communicating
wirelessly to the synthetic neurons outside the computer?
Do you think this entirely self-contained program on the computer would be
conscious in the same way you are with a biological brain? If not at what
step do you answer "no"?
> Do you think Santa Claus is real and knows things and is conscious? I
> can't believe you'd even ask such a dumb question....
Why don't you just plainly say what the above means: "I believe you are
dumb because you asked that question."
> On Tuesday, January 14, 2014 2:33:35 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
>> On 1/14/2014 9:32 AM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
>> Again, you are making the mistake of thinking consciousness is some
>> single state that things either have or don't have. There is actually a
>> continuous non-linear spectrum from a thermostat through a mars rover
>> through all biological organisms to a human and possibly beyond. Each of
>> these has an awareness (I call it Xperience) defined strictly in terms of
>> its actual structure and how that works. All Xperience is simply alteration
>> of the forms of something in computational interaction with other forms, so
>> properly speaking every event in the universe is an Xperience so in that
>> sense everything is the universe has some form of what could be called
>> Where you want to define 'actual consciousness' on this spectrum is
>> pretty much an arbitrary definition. However it is defined, consciousness
>> is simply the same old generic Xperience which is fundamental to
>> computational reality. Normally consciousness is defined to denote some
>> level of self-descriptive Xperience, in the sense that there are internal
>> computational forms that tell an organism what it is Xperiencing and what
>> its state is and how it is changing.
>> So a character in a video game could know things and could even be self
>> conscious - contrary to your previous dismissal.
>> So the answer to your questions is pretty much a matter of how
>> consciousness is defined. In all cases it's not any soul or ghost in the
>> machine added to a machine, biological or otherwise, but the operational
>> consequences of the structure of that machine, and its nature is strictly
>> determined by the operation of those actual structures.
>> On Monday, January 13, 2014 11:09:29 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
>>> On 1/13/2014 6:47 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
>>> > Brent,
>>> > For God's sakes, the "characters in a video game'" don't know
>>> anything. They are
>>> > completely fictional characters. You seem to have lost all touch with
>>> reality in your
>>> > zeal to find something to criticize. I can't believe we are actually
>>> having this
>>> > discussion... Do you also believe ghosts, trolls and fairies "know
>>> Do you believe computations can realize beings that know things (it's a
>>> consequence of
>>> your theory if I'm not mistaken). What does it take to "know things"?
>>> You never answered
>>> my question as to what it would take to make a conscious robot. You
>>> evaded it by saying
>>> "conscious" wasn't well defined. And I agree that there are levels and
>>> kinds of
>>> consciousness. But choose one or two - what would it take to make a
>>> robot that had that
>>> kind of consciousness. What would it take for a robot "know things"?
>>> Does the Mars Rover
>>> know things? anything?
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