Again, you are making the mistake of thinking consciousness is some single 
state that things either have or don't have. There is actually a continuous 
non-linear spectrum from a thermostat through a mars rover through all 
biological organisms to a human and possibly beyond. Each of these has an 
awareness (I call it Xperience) defined strictly in terms of its actual 
structure and how that works. All Xperience is simply alteration of the 
forms of something in computational interaction with other forms, so 
properly speaking every event in the universe is an Xperience so in that 
sense everything is the universe has some form of what could be called 

Where you want to define 'actual consciousness' on this spectrum is pretty 
much an arbitrary definition. However it is defined, consciousness is 
simply the same old generic Xperience which is fundamental to computational 
reality. Normally consciousness is defined to denote some level of 
self-descriptive Xperience, in the sense that there are internal 
computational forms that tell an organism what it is Xperiencing and what 
its state is and how it is changing.

So the answer to your questions is pretty much a matter of how 
consciousness is defined. In all cases it's not any soul or ghost in the 
machine added to a machine, biological or otherwise, but the operational 
consequences of the structure of that machine, and its nature is strictly 
determined by the operation of those actual structures.


On Monday, January 13, 2014 11:09:29 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
> On 1/13/2014 6:47 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: 
> > Brent, 
> > 
> > For God's sakes, the "characters in a video game'" don't know anything. 
> They are 
> > completely fictional characters. You seem to have lost all touch with 
> reality in your 
> > zeal to find something to criticize. I can't believe we are actually 
> having this 
> > discussion... Do you also believe ghosts, trolls and fairies "know 
> things"? 
> Do you believe computations can realize beings that know things (it's a 
> consequence of 
> your theory if I'm not mistaken).  What does it take to "know things"? 
>  You never answered 
> my question as to what it would take to make a conscious robot.  You 
> evaded it by saying 
> "conscious" wasn't well defined.  And I agree that there are levels and 
> kinds of 
> consciousness.  But choose one or two - what would it take to make a robot 
> that had that 
> kind of consciousness.  What would it take for a robot "know things"? 
>  Does the Mars Rover 
> know things?  anything? 
> Brent 

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