2014/1/15 Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com>

>
>
> On Jan 15, 2014, at 2:34 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>
>
> On 14 Jan 2014, at 22:29, Terren Suydam wrote:
>
> condescending dismissal in 3... 2... 1...
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 4:27 PM, LizR < <lizj...@gmail.com>
> lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 15 January 2014 06:53, Edgar L. Owen < <edgaro...@att.net>
>> edgaro...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Liz,
>>>
>>> See my response to Brent on consciousness of an hour ago. It answers
>>> this question...
>>>
>>> Actually to answer your question properly you have to define 'person',
>>> what you mean by an 'AI' and what you mean by a 'simulation'. In the
>>> details of those definitions will be your answer... It's arbitrary and ill
>>> formed as asked....
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, unlike waffle about "it's really real because it's real in the real
>> actual world, really, because I say so" (insert eye-rolling emoticon here)
>>
>> OK, let's say we simulate you in a virtual world. Or, to get a particular
>> scenario, let's assume some aliens with advanced technology turned up last
>> night and scanned your body, and created a computer model of it. We won't
>> worry about subtleties like substitution levels and whether "you" are
>> actually duplicated in the process. It's enough for the present discussion
>> that the simulated Edgar feels it's you, believes it's you, thinks its you,
>> and appears to have a body like yours which it can move around, just as you
>> do, in a world just like the one you're living in (they have also modelled
>> the Earth and its surroundings. Using nanotechnology they can do all this
>> inside a relatively small space). The simulated Edgar will think just like
>> you, assuming your thoughts are, in fact, the product of computation in
>> your brain, and it has your memories, because the aliens were able to model
>> the part of your brain that stores them.
>>
>> So, sim-Edgar wakes up the next morning and believes himself to be
>> earth-Edgar.
>>
>> Would he know, or discover at some point, that he's a simulation in a
>> virtual world, and if so, how?
>>
>
>
> And the answer is "yes, he would know that, but not immediately".
>
> So it would not change the indeterminacy, as he will not immediately see
> that he is in a simulation, but, unless you intervene repeatedly on the
> simulation, or unless you manipulate directly his mind, he can see that he
> is in a simulation by comparing the comp physics ("in his head") and the
> physics in the simulation.
> The simulation is locally finite, and the comp-physics is necessarily
> infinite (it emerges from the 1p indeterminacy on the whole UD*), so, soon
> or later, he will bet that he is in a simulation (or that comp is wrong).
>
> OK?
>
> Bruno
>
>
> Is this necessarily true if the simulation were run on a quantum computer
> so the simulants observed a kind of FPI?
>

I think the soon or later is wrong, unless he would have a complete comp
theory in which he extracted the physics and use it to predict things in
his reality and face discrepancy... either he will acknowledge comp is
wrong, or he is in a simulation... but even if he is in "a" simulation, if
comp is true, at each steps, there is a continuation which is not in the
simulation... the thing then will be to know the proportion of
continuations which are in a simulation vs which are not...

But *some* individuals running in a simulation are doomed to *never* know
it... whatever they try, because there will always exists by definition a
continuation where the observer is unaware of inhabiting such simulation.

Quentin


>
> Jason
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Everything List" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to <everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com>
>> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
>> everything-list@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at <http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
>> For more options, visit <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>
>> https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to <everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>
> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
> everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at <http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>
> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>
> https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>  <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/>http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>
>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at <http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>
> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>
> https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>



-- 
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy
Batty/Rutger Hauer)

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

Reply via email to