Dear Bruno,

  Forgive a small cherry-picking. You wrote:
"It does not necessarily make the physical into a mathematical structure.
It makes the whole coupling consciousness/physicalness into an arithmetical
internal phenomenon."

  Can the "arithmetic internal phenomenon" be emulated or mapped faithfully
onto a Boolean or Heyting algebra? If so, what would its mathematical dual
be?


On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

>
> On 18 Jan 2014, at 22:29, LizR wrote:
>
> On 19 January 2014 05:54, Stephen Paul King <stephe...@provensecure.com>wrote:
>
>> Dear Bruno,
>>
>> I do not claim that UDA is "flawed". I claim it is incomplete and based
>> on a false premise. The problem is the assumption that one can reason as if
>> the physical world does not exist and discuss ideas that imply the
>> existence of Becoming and measures there of (time) all the while using
>> axioms that forbid their existence. It is the sound of one hand clapping in
>> a mind that cannot imagine air.
>>
>
> I don't see why any of AR implies the existence of becoming.
>
>
> OK. See below.
>
>
>
> Nor do I understand how Bruno gets computations out indexically.
>
>
>
> I don't get the computation indexically, unless you mean the indices of
> the phi_i.
> Indexical was referring to the mathematics of self-reference used in AUDA.
> It is the one obeying G and G*, and whose variants gives the person points
> of view (including the "physical one").
>
> That the computation are emulated through number relations in arithmetic
> is quite standard. It is already almost explicit in Gödel 1931, although
> nitpickers could say this only appears really "officially" in Hilbert and
> Bernays.
>
> It is technically easy, but long and tedious to do that in detail. When
> done, there can be some opposition coming from the fact that people confuse
> computations (the abstract notion), and their description in term of
> numbers.
>
> If you have an idea how a (von Neumann) computer is functioning, or if you
> have played with a couple of universal system (machine or language), and
> have even a rough idea how Gödel's theorem can be proved in arithmetic (=
> by PA itself), you should not have too much difficulty to conceive that the
> sigma_1 number relations constitute a universal system, and thus emulate
> all Turing machines and brains. Then AR does the rest (assuming comp
> 'course).
>
> And then you have your explanation of becoming, up to one serious but
> fertile difficulty.
> Indeed, once you understand that all subjective experiences, which include
> the subjective feeling of becoming, are emulated in arithmetic, the
> "illusion" of becoming is explained.
>
> The problem is that by the FPI, we must still explain the statistical
> persistence of such feelings, and here UDA explains that such persistence
> can only come from the relative FPI, which can be translated in math, and
> that reduce physics to mathematics.
>
> It does not necessarily make the physical into a mathematical structure.
> It makes the whole coupling consciousness/physicalness into an arithmetical
> internal phenomenon.
>
> Hope this helped a bit,
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I suspect you don't, either, so you assume he uses "becoming" - if so we
> both need to know exactly what Bruno is arguing actually happens (I use the
> word under erasure!) before we can have an opinion on whether he's right or
> not.
>
> I have to ask, do you accept block universes? If not imho you're probably
> arguing from a false premise yourself.
>
>
>>    The UDA can be useful and it is interesting, but it is a castle built
>> in midair and expected to float free because the designer does not admit
>> the existence of gravity.
>>
>
> "That's fighting talk!" :-)
>
>
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> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>
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-- 

Kindest Regards,

Stephen Paul King

Senior Researcher

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stephe...@provensecure.com

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