On 24 January 2014 15:28, Stephen Paul King <[email protected]>wrote:
> Dear LizR, > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 9:04 PM, LizR <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On 24 January 2014 14:55, Stephen Paul King >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Dear LizR, >>> >>> I argue against the block universe idea as well using quantum >>> mechanics: positions and momenta cannot co-exist as definite states; a >>> block universe must have all of its observables as mutually commuting so >>> that they are all simultaneously definite. >>> >> >> If this is a problem (which is far from certain) it's one of classical >> physics vs quantum theory. It doesn't show block universes are impossible, >> it shows that classical physics is impossible. (The resolution is almost >> certainly a block multiverse.) >> > > Umm, one more time: A block universe requires that it be a block, a fixed > 4-dimensional object. As such all properties associated with the points > making up that hypercube must be simultaneously defined. The general > non-commutability of observables (energy, spin direction, position, > duration, etc.) of QM disallows this requirement. Thus QM prohibits the > existence of a block universe. > Your use of "simultaneously" doesn't make sense. These properties are *not*simultaneously defined (simultaneity in a block universe is defined as a particular hyperplane, and is relative to an observer). > I don't comprehend what a "block multiverse" could be. > A multiverse which evolves according to deterministic laws. QM under the Everett interpretation describes a block multiverse. > >> >>> But let us ignore that and stipulate the block universe for the sake >>> of the conversation. What we could see in the block universe, once we >>> associate with it with the Hamiltonians or Lagrangians of the world tubes, >>> is a *representation of action*. *It is not action itself*. >>> >> >> No, it really is action. The past is a block universe (unless you know >> some way to change it). You can associate a Hamiltonian with something in >> the past (since physics worked in the past). So you can do all the above >> with block universes. >> > > The mathematical representation of the action *is* the action? Maybe you > are thinking in a different way or interpreting the definition given in the > wiki article in a different way... > OK, I may have not put that too clearly. Let's just concentrate on the past. The past is by definition a block universe (it's unchanging, with everything fixed in place in a 4D continuum.) Actions took place in the past, hence actions can take place in a block universe. > >> >>> A world or "reality" is not in my thinking a representation of >>> something that does not exist. We can define observers as being >>> representable per Bruno's definition, but that is half of what they are, >>> not all of what they are. *For every representation there must exist at >>> least one physical object and for every physical object there must exist at >>> least one representation*. >>> >> >> So "no universe without representation!", eh? (So no universe before >> beings able to make representations?) >> > > No, a physical system, say the universe comes into being with its > representation (at least its self-representation), one cannot exist without > the other. This is a form of panpsychism... maybe... I am not married to > this idea without the possibility of a divorce. It is weird, I admit, I am > just trying to see if it "works". > OK, I'll leave that aside for now. > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/TBc_y2MZV5c/unsubscribe >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > > > -- > > Kindest Regards, > > Stephen Paul King > > Senior Researcher > > Mobile: (864) 567-3099 > > [email protected] > > http://www.provensecure.us/ > > > “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of > the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain > information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and > exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as > attorney work product. 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