On 17 Feb 2014, at 01:02, meekerdb wrote:
On 2/16/2014 10:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 16 Feb 2014, at 19:10, meekerdb wrote:
On 2/16/2014 2:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
But of course if you're trying to ascertain the nature of
personal identity none of this matters, it doesn't matter if the
predictions were correct or not.
We are not trying to ascertain the nature of personal identity at
all. I can be amnesic on who I am for example. the question is
about the expectation of some unique 1p experience I will live
soon. By comp I know that it must be W, or M, but not both, nor
none.
But that's the ambiguity I see. When you ask the H-man, "Where do
you think you will be?"
The H-man has a diary. He must predict what will happen from his
first person experience, when he pushes on the button, and then
open a door. He must write the result, which can only be "W", or
"M", but not both, in his diary, and compare that result with the
prediction.
See my last reply to John Clark.
There is no ambiguity, you need only distinguish carefully the 3p
description, from the 1p experiences.
he has to provide some interpretation to the word "you". My
immediate, intuitive thought was, "I expect to be in both places."
That is the 3-1 view. You go out of your body, and you look at you
reconstituted in both place. That is the correct 3-1 view indeed.
yet, to answer the question asked, you need to reintegrate the
body, and as it has been duplicated, you need to dovetail a little
bit on the two 1-views itself. And in this case, both can see that
"both city" was wrong, as both can see they are in only one city.
Which depends on what is meant by "I".
You might reread the thread, or just the paper. The 1-I, or 1-view,
or 1p view, is the content of the personal diary taken by the
experiencer, and the 3-view are view by outsider, which means here
that they are not entering in the duplication boxes.
If "I" is just conscious experience then there are two "I"s and
neither is the H-man because they're not experiencing Helsinki.
So "I" must be experiences and memory.
For UDA, even just the memory is enough, and the honesty in the
confirmation and refutation game, also.
No, just memory can't be enough because then there is no difference.
? There is a difference which appears after the duplication and the
opening of the door.
Then the M-man and the W-man are both "I" the H-man, in which case
the H-man should answer "Both".
Again, that is the correct 3-1 view. But the question is asked on
the 1-1 views, which are the 1-views.
But it is your insistence that the H-man write either M or W but not
"both" as his expectation.
I explain why. If he wrote both, it only means that he is thinking on
the 3-1 view, and not on the possible 1-1-views, like what was asked
to him. No problem, we can do the experience again.
So then one must ask "Why not both?". The answer is obviously,
"They are physically different and will start to form different
memories due to their interaction with their environment - otherwise
there would continue to be only one person (at least that's our best
theory).
That's a plea for the indeterminacy. That's my point.
Bruno
Brent
The reason why I insist in that 1p/3p distinction is to avoid any
ambiguity. In the 3p you are all of them, in the 1-p you remain
always only one of them. (them = the relative copies).
Again see my last post to John Clark.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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