On 07 Mar 2014, at 19:22, meekerdb wrote:
On 3/6/2014 11:51 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 06 Mar 2014, at 20:06, meekerdb wrote:
On 3/6/2014 7:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
(b) think computation is intrinsically conscious
But this wording is worst, as it looks like it insists that a
computation (or some computation) are conscious. But only a first
person is conscious, and a first person is nothing capable of
being defined in any 3p way.
For example, a brain cannot think. Brain activity cannot think, a
computer cannot think, a computation cannot think, I would say.
But I can still say yes to the doctor, because I can believe that
my consciousness is related to an infinity of number relation in
arithmetic, and that a brain or a machine might make it possible
for that consciousness to be manifestable here and now, with
hopefully the right relative measure.
If it were not manifested here and now, what would it be conscious
of?
Well, either in some other "here and now", as this is an indexical,
or of something else (in some altered state of consciousness which
might have nothing to do with "here and now"), or it might just not
be conscious at all.
What I am saying here is just that 3p things can only be conscious
in some metaphorical way, like when we say that a machine can
think, which really means only that a machine can support a
thinking/conscious first person agent.
And without support...no consciousness.
Right.
Arithmetic contains infinity of "supports", and the consciousness of
the universal and virgin machine is filtered through them.
The conscious-thinker has to be a first person, not a body. The
first lesson of computationalism is that "I" am not "my body", I
own or borrow it only. In principle, I can get another one.
Not a body I can understand (although I think a body and even an
environment may be necessary).
I put the needed environment in the "generalized body or brain".
But you also say "not a computation".
Because "computation" are 3p. Both computation and provability are not
conscious 1p notions. Only "[]p & p" makes sense for this, as it
behaves like a knowledge operator. Consciousness is the non doubtable
part of self-knowledge. Computations are only 3p describable sequences
of relative states brought by some universal numbers.
Bruno
Brent
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