On 23 Jun 2014, at 18:17, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
wrote:
> there is a 1-3 confusion here (is it volontarily?).
Oh yes, I always voluntarily strive to be confused because when one
is presented with nonsense the only logical response is confusion.
> I predict only "0.5" in most diaries.
Predictions are great for validating scientific theories but
predictions, good bad or ugly, have absolutely nothing to do with
establishing a sense of self.
We use the usual sense of self defined by the "yes doctor". It is
equivalent with Parfit person-series. It is what you need to make
sense of "surviving" any experience or happening.
And not that it matters but even your prediction is wrong; each and
every time you repeat your experiment Mr. You sees Moscow, not half
the time, ALWAYS.
Just iterate the experiences. Once done the W-guy admits seeing only W
and not M, and the M-guy admits having seen M, and not W. They wrote
each a different letter than the doppelganger.
If you iterate the experiences 10 times, only one guy among the 2^10
one will say that has the story "MMMMMMMMMM".
From their first person point of view, the 2^10 - 1 others knows you
were wrong (although trivially correct for the 3-view on the 1-views,
but false for the 1-views as see from that 1-view.
> The prediction is about the first person experience,
The?
> as seen from the first person
The? Are you talking about the first person in Helsinki, the first
person in Moscow or the first person in Washington?
The prediction is done by the first person in Helsinki, before the
duplication. You keep asking me this, when this is made clear in the
paper, in the post, etc.
>which are the one writing either M, or W,
And neither Mr. M or Mr. W or Mr. H or even Mr. You sees half a city.
Exactly. That is why they each write W, or they write M, and never
both, after one duplication.
> and never both in their histories.
It's true that Mr. M doesn't see both cities, and Mr. W doesn't see
both cities, but Mr. You does.
In the 3p views, but as I said and explain with the diary, only mr M
and mr W are interviewed.
Mister You can see both, in his imagination, like he can imagine the
universal wave (which multiply him) and like we can conceive all
computational histories.
> You put your foot out of the shoes after the duplication.
How on earth do I do that? Do you think that when I arrive in
Washington (and Moscow) I can just say to myself "I am no longer Mr.
I " with such intensity that I actually believe it ? It simply
can't be done.
But that is what make my point. You feel to be one in one city, and
still be the guy you were in Helsinki. You write W, *or* M in your
diary.
In the 3-view of yourself, you can say that (the W-guy write M *and
the M-guy write W), that's correct, but the statistics concerned the
person view, and none write "I see W and I see M" in the diary, as it
is asked to use "see" in the first person sense.
You repeat your old "refutation" in which you confuse the 1-views and
the 3-view on the 1-views at the last step.
> Both the W-guy and the M-guy get one bit of information
You can't make use of probabilities if you only have one bit of
information to work with; the 2 slit experiment would tell you
nothing if the only information you had is what happened when one
lonely photon went through; you've got to send lots and lots of
photons through the slits to learn anything, and the same is true of
your thought experiment, it must be repeated many times. And no
matter how often it's repeated Mr. You sees Washington AND Mr. You
sees Moscow.
Never simultaneously from their first person view, which is what both
comp and Everett QM are about.
I don't know if it is bad faith, or why you systematically forget what
the question was about. The question bears clearly on the relative
histories. You say "always M", what about the guy who see "always W"?
Bruno
John K Clark
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