On 16 Jul 2014, at 19:31, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
2014-07-16 19:22 GMT+02:00 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>:
On 15 Jul 2014, at 22:14, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
2014-07-15 22:10 GMT+02:00 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>:
On 14 Jul 2014, at 17:25, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
2014-07-14 17:13 GMT+02:00 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>:
On 14 Jul 2014, at 12:53, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
2014-07-14 12:09 GMT+02:00 Samiya Illias <[email protected]>:
Why do you need to see God to believe in God?
Why should you believe if you can know ? If you can't, why should
you believe instead of not believing or go eating an hamburger ?
Seeing might make you know *that* you see, but it does not entail
that you know *what* you see, as you might be dreaming or
hallucinating.
That wasn't what I was implying... I see not point to "believe" or
not "believe"... Why *shoud* I believe anyway ?
Just to clear things up, I use the common part of all "analytical
definition of belief theory and knowledge theory", and in
particular (knowing p) -> (believing p).
If you know that there is milk in the fridge, you believe that
there is milk in the fridge.
The key difference is that the reciprocal is false. If you believe
there is milk in the fridge , you can still "not know it".
Well I can accept such language in mathematics where you make clear
what is meant, not in every day use.... when someone says he
*believes* in god,
I use "believe" in the same mundane sense that "I believe that there
is orange juice in the fridge,
I believe in *god* is not like I believe there is orange juice in
the fridge.
What is the difference?
and later like in I believe in the axiom of elementary arithmetic
and in its first order logical consequence, or in "I don't believe
the machine k will stop on the input j.
that's not what he meant... That's what I don't like in your
approach to insist using everyday word in everyday language *but*
with your own mathematical meaning. It's misleading you should see
it.
I use "belief" in the doxastic sense of the analytical philosophers.
Iuse "belief" in the sense of Theaetetus, Gerson, etc.
You use those words in a misleading way... You do what you want of
course... but you're clearly totally misunderstood when you talk to
a believer.
I am probably misunderstood by the "blind-faith" type of believers,
like the strong atheists I met from time to time (like John Clark to
give the nearest example). But as John Clark illustrates very well,
they need a high dose of irrationalism, and as my works has
illustrated, changing the vocabulary does not help.
In interdisciplinary work, my strategy consists in using the terms on
which each each discipline has the greatest consensus over. I am aware
that this cannot satisfy everybody, but then in science we don't waste
time in vocabulary discussion. If something is unclear about the use
of some term, we just ask to remind the current used definition.
Bruno
Quentin
Bruno
Quentin
Bruno
In general you believe something, not because you see it, but
because it fits well with your background knowledge. I can't see
the set {0, 1, 2, ...}, nor really define it, yet I hardly doubt
that it makes sense, as it explains a lot of other things in which
I already tend to believe (like the non existence of a bigger
prime, or the existence of universal numbers, the real numbers,
etc.).
Bruno
Quentin
On 14-Jul-2014, at 2:14 am, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote:
On 7/13/2014 3:47 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
Sure: "Do you believe in a theist god?"
I'd like to.
So we can keep using the word "theology" and keep some academic
departments that have no subject.
This would also include political science, arts, gender
studies, french literature. Are you willing to go that far, and
make what doesn't build bridges or bake bread, something to be
learned as a podcast? Sauce for the goose, sauce for
the gander. Dump them all. Right?
I can point to art, people with genders, and french literature.
I've run a political campaign. But I've never seen a god.
Brent
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