> On 8 Aug 2014, at 4:26 am, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On 8/7/2014 11:16 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >>>>> The trouble with such a theory is that it applies as well to those >>>>> apoplectic with rage or sobbing in sorrow - maybe they're really happy, >>>>> we just can't know. >>>> >>>> But in this case you can ask them. >>> >>> That doesn't help. Their response is a mere external 3p phenomenon. We >>> can't know what is in their consciousness. >> >> I know that when I ask for help I mean it, so I can apply inductive >> reasoning to assume that somebody else asking for help also means it. With >> Alzheimers we don't even have that. So I wouldn't say it's the same >> situation unless you reject induction. > > That's not exactly inductive, since it's based on a single sample, you, but I > take your point. This is what we do in all instances of attributing > conscious thoughts to other people. But it's not different with Alzheimers > sufferers. First, you can ask them. They often (particularly in the early > stages) can tell you they are confused and afraid, don't know who you are, > don't know who they are, don't know where they are, feel they're losing their > mind... Second, just as with other people, you can make inferences from > their actions and body language - like telling when they're looking for a > bathroom. But Kim's suggestion was that these merely external signs don't > necessarily tell us anything about inner consciousness - essentially denying > the validity of your induction. > > Brent
No, denying that you can fully trust induction as a fuide to behaviour as you cannot know whether or not the other has designed the behaviour expressly and to what intent; faced with this the other would probably deny it but more than likely was merely unconscious of it. Behaviour can be manipulative that is unconsciously motivated. It's no different in everyday life. There are many forms of behaviour and many ways to behave; it's hard to discover the baseline or the equilibrium state, here. Schizophrenics for example, can behave as though the entire world is their audience yet ignore your very existence though you may be standing but a couple of feet away. Something has them preoccupied. The self can be very preoccupied with things no third party can ever have any purchase over. Some of the hardest things you will ever have to figure out are going to be other human beings; yet in the 3p view we are all so alike, so it's hard to know why we find each other so mysterious and, ultimately, problematic. Kim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
