2015-01-10 23:12 GMT+01:00 Telmo Menezes <[email protected]>: > > > On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 10:49 PM, Alberto G. Corona <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> >> 2015-01-10 22:10 GMT+01:00 Telmo Menezes <[email protected]>: >> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 8:35 PM, Alberto G. Corona <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> John, >>>> >>>> But trade need an environment where some force and some love are >>>> necessary. Trade without enforcement of contracts does not work. >>>> >>> >>> There's plenty of evidence to the contrary. >>> >> >> I would like to know. I have a long experience in discussions with anarco >> capitalists, since I was one of them for a time >> >>> >>> Take Silk Road. By it's very nature it could not resort to any of the >>> law enforcement or judicial systems maintained by the state. It didn't even >>> use the state's currency. Yet it had a large number of happy buyers and >>> sellers. It worked perfectly well under self-regulation. >>> >>> >>>> Neither work without some sincere love for what one does and for the >>>> well being of the client. trade without force need an utopic quantity of >>>> love. >>>> >>> >>> It might only need rational agents: one's reputation is more valuable in >>> the long run than immediate profit, one should due one's due diligence >>> before entering large trades. Again, this is how any successful illegal >>> market operates. And many do. >>> >>> A rational agent is a gangster, or a swindler. No intention to be >> sarcastic here. Both are perfect rational agents, and both will be present >> in any market environment ready to destroy the win-win game of the market. >> That is the reason why force and love are necessary. >> > > If there are enough rational agents in the market, cooperation becomes > more profitable than misbehaviour. Rational agents will be careful about > who they enter large transaction with. So the access to high transactions > becomes dependent on reputation, and reputation becomes more valuable than > the profits from misbehaving on smaller trades. > > This is why Silk Road worked, even though people could send flour instead > of cocaine, and the buyer would have no recourse to the police or the > courts. >
Did you mean violence did not exists ? the recourse was simple... killing, coercion... if that is an example of "free" market... then I'll prefer not to be part of it. Anarcho-capitalism is a non-sense and an hijacking of the meaning of anarchism... anarchism cannot be capitalistic... that's a non-sequitur. Quentin > > >> >> It is so evident for me that I would be very very surprised to find that >> you convince me after years of arguing with anarco-capitalists >> >> >>> Telmo. >>> >>> >>>> trade without love need big quantity of force. >>>> >>>> It is a pity to see all these modern ideologies that are nothing but >>>> simplifications and adaptations of Christian concepts. No political system >>>> is better than other. The Christian call for a personal revolution, called >>>> conversion, to change what is around and have a better society, not a >>>> political change. Paul called for the obedience of the Cesar, and the >>>> Cesar at that time was Nero. Only by the example or testimony of each one >>>> that changes the people around, the system will mutate to a better one. >>>> Even if formally does not change. And the contrary the better political >>>> system will decay if the people do evil. No society will be free from >>>> corruption since it is in human nature. >>>> >>>> In contrast the liberal sectarians of the ilustration and the french >>>> revolution though that a political change would change fundamentally the >>>> society for a better one without previously changing the people. That does >>>> not work. >>>> >>>> After that, the socialist sectarians fo the comunist revolution though >>>> that a violent social change would create a new Man. That didn't work too. >>>> >>>> What is next? the sectarian culturalist though.... >>>> >>>> >>>> All of them are bad and cheap copies of the Christian conception of >>>> salvation, escatology etc. >>>> >>>> But it is better to call things by his name. Democracy is an >>>> ideological lie. There is no such thing as democracy. There is the law of >>>> majority. and the result is not what the majority think, but what the elite >>>> -that they admire and obey- think. At the end the formal system does not >>>> matter >>>> >>>> >>>> 2015-01-10 19:40 GMT+01:00 John Clark <[email protected]>: >>>> >>>>> On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 4:08 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything >>>>> List <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > Functioning anarchy would require a level of individual ethics that >>>>>> does not yet exist >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No, it's socialism that won't work unless everybody is a saint, and >>>>> that's why socialist are always observed to be in a constant state of >>>>> righteous indignation; people aren't behaving as he wants then to behave >>>>> and as they must behave for his system to function. In general I can only >>>>> think of 3 ways to get anybody to do anything, force, love, or trade. I >>>>> think most of us would agree that all else being equal force is the least >>>>> desirable of the three. Love is very nice and it works for some things but >>>>> any economic system that must rely on people loving each other is just not >>>>> going to work. So unless somebody knows of a fourth way that I haven't >>>>> thought of there is only one thing left. >>>>> >>>>> The farmer grows my food, the trucker moves my food and the grocer >>>>> sells my food, I didn't make them do it and none of these people love me, >>>>> yet the free market plunges them into a conspiracy to put food on my >>>>> table. Capitalism can efficiently create wealth even if everybody is just >>>>> looking out for themselves, I know of no other economic system that can do >>>>> that. >>>>> >>>>> John K Clark >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Alberto. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Alberto. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy Batty/Rutger Hauer) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
