2015-01-11 0:03 GMT+01:00 Telmo Menezes <[email protected]>: > > > On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 11:48 PM, Quentin Anciaux <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> >> 2015-01-10 23:12 GMT+01:00 Telmo Menezes <[email protected]>: >> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 10:49 PM, Alberto G. Corona <[email protected] >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2015-01-10 22:10 GMT+01:00 Telmo Menezes <[email protected]>: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 8:35 PM, Alberto G. Corona < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> John, >>>>>> >>>>>> But trade need an environment where some force and some love are >>>>>> necessary. Trade without enforcement of contracts does not work. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> There's plenty of evidence to the contrary. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I would like to know. I have a long experience in discussions with >>>> anarco capitalists, since I was one of them for a time >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Take Silk Road. By it's very nature it could not resort to any of the >>>>> law enforcement or judicial systems maintained by the state. It didn't >>>>> even >>>>> use the state's currency. Yet it had a large number of happy buyers and >>>>> sellers. It worked perfectly well under self-regulation. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Neither work without some sincere love for what one does and for the >>>>>> well being of the client. trade without force need an utopic quantity of >>>>>> love. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It might only need rational agents: one's reputation is more valuable >>>>> in the long run than immediate profit, one should due one's due diligence >>>>> before entering large trades. Again, this is how any successful illegal >>>>> market operates. And many do. >>>>> >>>>> A rational agent is a gangster, or a swindler. No intention to be >>>> sarcastic here. Both are perfect rational agents, and both will be present >>>> in any market environment ready to destroy the win-win game of the market. >>>> That is the reason why force and love are necessary. >>>> >>> >>> If there are enough rational agents in the market, cooperation becomes >>> more profitable than misbehaviour. Rational agents will be careful about >>> who they enter large transaction with. So the access to high transactions >>> becomes dependent on reputation, and reputation becomes more valuable than >>> the profits from misbehaving on smaller trades. >>> >>> This is why Silk Road worked, even though people could send flour >>> instead of cocaine, and the buyer would have no recourse to the police or >>> the courts. >>> >> >> Did you mean violence did not exists ? >> > > Yes. In fact one of the criticisms over the shutting down of Silk Road is > that it was reducing violent crimes, by moving a significant percentage of > drug trading to a non-violent environment. > > >> the recourse was simple... killing, coercion... >> > > No, it was an anonymous market. People used TOR addresses, bitcoins and PO > boxes. > Think about it, it would have to be anonymous, otherwise it would be > trivial for the police to go after sellers. >
Really it's a joke ? Do you really mean cocaine producer did sell through bitcoin and an internet site drugs ? Are you naive ? > > >> if that is an example of "free" market... then I'll prefer not to be part >> of it. >> > > And that's another advantage of free markets over governments: you can > chose not to participate. Governments will eventually through you in a cage > for attempting to opt-out. > Participate with mafia ? No thank you. > > >> >> Anarcho-capitalism is a non-sense and an hijacking of the meaning of >> anarchism... anarchism cannot be capitalistic... that's a non-sequitur. >> > > So I live in an anarchist society and decide to start my own currency. > Why would you do that ? To be the boss ? > Am I going to be prevented from doing it? > You could, but it would be useless... who would want your currency in an anarchist society ? what for ? > Then there's authority and coercion and it's not really an anarchist > society, is it? > o_O > > Telmo. > > >> >> Quentin >> >> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> It is so evident for me that I would be very very surprised to find >>>> that you convince me after years of arguing with anarco-capitalists >>>> >>>> >>>>> Telmo. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> trade without love need big quantity of force. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is a pity to see all these modern ideologies that are nothing but >>>>>> simplifications and adaptations of Christian concepts. No political >>>>>> system >>>>>> is better than other. The Christian call for a personal revolution, >>>>>> called >>>>>> conversion, to change what is around and have a better society, not a >>>>>> political change. Paul called for the obedience of the Cesar, and the >>>>>> Cesar at that time was Nero. Only by the example or testimony of each one >>>>>> that changes the people around, the system will mutate to a better one. >>>>>> Even if formally does not change. And the contrary the better political >>>>>> system will decay if the people do evil. No society will be free from >>>>>> corruption since it is in human nature. >>>>>> >>>>>> In contrast the liberal sectarians of the ilustration and the french >>>>>> revolution though that a political change would change fundamentally the >>>>>> society for a better one without previously changing the people. That >>>>>> does >>>>>> not work. >>>>>> >>>>>> After that, the socialist sectarians fo the comunist revolution >>>>>> though that a violent social change would create a new Man. That didn't >>>>>> work too. >>>>>> >>>>>> What is next? the sectarian culturalist though.... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> All of them are bad and cheap copies of the Christian conception of >>>>>> salvation, escatology etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> But it is better to call things by his name. Democracy is an >>>>>> ideological lie. There is no such thing as democracy. There is the law of >>>>>> majority. and the result is not what the majority think, but what the >>>>>> elite >>>>>> -that they admire and obey- think. At the end the formal system does not >>>>>> matter >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2015-01-10 19:40 GMT+01:00 John Clark <[email protected]>: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 4:08 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything >>>>>>> List <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > Functioning anarchy would require a level of individual ethics >>>>>>>> that does not yet exist >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No, it's socialism that won't work unless everybody is a saint, and >>>>>>> that's why socialist are always observed to be in a constant state of >>>>>>> righteous indignation; people aren't behaving as he wants then to behave >>>>>>> and as they must behave for his system to function. In general I can >>>>>>> only >>>>>>> think of 3 ways to get anybody to do anything, force, love, or trade. I >>>>>>> think most of us would agree that all else being equal force is the >>>>>>> least >>>>>>> desirable of the three. Love is very nice and it works for some things >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> any economic system that must rely on people loving each other is just >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> going to work. So unless somebody knows of a fourth way that I haven't >>>>>>> thought of there is only one thing left. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The farmer grows my food, the trucker moves my food and the grocer >>>>>>> sells my food, I didn't make them do it and none of these people love >>>>>>> me, >>>>>>> yet the free market plunges them into a conspiracy to put food on my >>>>>>> table. Capitalism can efficiently create wealth even if everybody is >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> looking out for themselves, I know of no other economic system that can >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> John K Clark >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Alberto. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>>> . >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Alberto. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy >> Batty/Rutger Hauer) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy Batty/Rutger Hauer) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
