On 12 Feb 2015, at 05:59, meekerdb wrote:
On 2/11/2015 10:48 AM, LizR wrote:
On 12 February 2015 at 04:46, Jason Resch <[email protected]>
wrote:
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 4:15 AM, LizR <[email protected]> wrote:
On 11 February 2015 at 20:57, Jason Resch <[email protected]>
wrote:
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 1:44 AM, LizR <[email protected]> wrote:
On 11 February 2015 at 18:29, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2/10/2015 5:47 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 5:57 PM, LizR <[email protected]> wrote:
I call this the Cyberman (or Mr Spock) problem. The Cybermen in
Doctor Who are logical and unemotional, yet they wish to convert
the rest of the world to be like them. Why? Without emotion they
have no reason to do that, or anything else. (Likewise Mr Spock,
except as we know he only repressed his emotions.)
I'm not sure whether emotions are necessary to have goals. Then
again, perhaps they are.
The 'big' emotions like fear, rage, lust probably aren't, but
values, feelings that this is preferred to that, are.
I don't see how one could have an opinion on whether one should do
anything without emotions being involved.
So do you believe the Mars Rover is motivated to explore by its
emotions?
I don't believe it is motivated at all, in the sense that a
conscious being is.
Then couldn't the cybermen be like the Mars Rover? or vice-versa,
could a Mars Rover be programmed with the goal of the cybermen yet
not have emotions?
No I think the cybermen are intended to be conscious, and emotions
are what evolved to make conscious beings do stuff that was
necessary to their survival.
Do you think that consciousness is necessary for emotion? Certainly
snails and insects react to things in their environment in order to
enhance their survival. Is that emotion? I think it is, but maybe
it's just a question of semantics? Are they conscious or merely
aware?
I would have said: "are there self-conscious or merely conscious".
Without consciousness, there is no pain/pleasure.
To get emotion, you might need self-consciousness, at least to have
emotion that you can express as such.
Bruno
Brent
The cybes act as though they are motivated by certain emotions (as
does Mr Spock). They wish to make everyone else like them - why?
Because that is the logical thing to do, perhaps. But why do they
care enough to actually do it?
The Mars Rover does what it does because of the particular pattern
of instructions stored in its CPU, I assume.
Of course comp says there's no difference. I wonder what Bruno
thinks about emotions? Since you're effectively espousing comp
here, assumig Bruno's right on that I may be wrong on this.
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