On 2/12/2015 2:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 12 Feb 2015, at 05:59, meekerdb wrote:
On 2/11/2015 10:48 AM, LizR wrote:
On 12 February 2015 at 04:46, Jason Resch <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 4:15 AM, LizR <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 11 February 2015 at 20:57, Jason Resch <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 1:44 AM, LizR <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 11 February 2015 at 18:29, meekerdb <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 2/10/2015 5:47 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 5:57 PM, LizR <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I call this the Cyberman (or Mr Spock) problem. The
Cybermen
in Doctor Who are logical and unemotional, yet they
wish to
convert the rest of the world to be like them. Why?
Without
emotion they have no reason to do that, or anything
else.
(Likewise Mr Spock, except as we know he only repressed
his
emotions.)
I'm not sure whether emotions are necessary to have goals.
Then
again, perhaps they are.
The 'big' emotions like fear, rage, lust probably aren't,
but
values, feelings that this is preferred to that, are.
I don't see how one could have an opinion on whether one should
do
anything without emotions being involved.
So do you believe the Mars Rover is motivated to explore by its
emotions?
I don't believe it is motivated at all, in the sense that a conscious
being is.
Then couldn't the cybermen be like the Mars Rover? or vice-versa, could a
Mars
Rover be programmed with the goal of the cybermen yet not have emotions?
No I think the cybermen are intended to be conscious, and emotions are what evolved to
make conscious beings do stuff that was necessary to their survival.
Do you think that consciousness is necessary for emotion? Certainly snails and insects
react to things in their environment in order to enhance their survival. Is that
emotion? I think it is, but maybe it's just a question of semantics? Are they
conscious or merely aware?
I would have said: "are there self-conscious or merely conscious".
Without consciousness, there is no pain/pleasure.
To get emotion, you might need self-consciousness, at least to have emotion that you can
express as such.
I think asking for expression in language is to anthropocentric. Mammals all express fear
by producing adrenalin and increasing heart rate. I don't think they need language. Of
course I'd say mammals are self-conscious. But what about amoeba; they also react
bio-chemically to gradients in the water. Why isn't that and expression of emotion. Yet
I don't think amoeba are self-conscious. In my terms I'd say they are aware, but not
conscious.
Brent
Brent
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