> On 27 Jun 2018, at 06:31, Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 6/26/2018 11:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 25 Jun 2018, at 18:37, Brent Meeker <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6/25/2018 3:32 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 23 Jun 2018, at 08:03, Brent Meeker <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 6/22/2018 4:41 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>>>>>> This does not mean that a conscious machine is necessarily more >>>>>>>> efficacious on all task, >>>>>>> What is the added undecideable sentence implied by consciousness? >>>>>> “I am conscious”. >>>>> >>>>> What does that speed up? Does the speed up from adding an undeciable >>>>> sentence suffer from Goodheart's curse? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Not sure what you mean. I would say “no”, in theory “I am not conscious” >>>> can also bring a speed-up, despite being obviously consistent, like PA >>>> with “I am inconsistent”. The speed-up is proved by constructive >>>> diagonalisation, and is thus non-intuitive, except we can imagine than >>>> being aware of one’s consciousness might help to planning, especially in >>>> an environment habited by conscious entities. >>>> Consciousness is *the* speed-up mechanism. It makes us thinking using >>>> model, semantic, meaning, instead of living the syntactical relation at >>>> some low level. Meaning is easier than proof, even if it can be misleading >>>> for individuals, it gives sense to sense, and priorities to higher goal, >>>> like surviving. >>> >>> That all sounds like wishful thinking and hand-waving. >> >> Not really. It is complicated theorems. >> >> >> >>> As I pointed out earlier, if you try to play tennis consciously you will >>> lose because you will be slow. >> >> On the contrary, you will be able to move more quickly that the adversary, >> in principle, in the long terms. That is why self-moving animals have >> developed more rapidly communicating cells, to anticipate/bet on the local >> future, without which we would even never play tennis. >> You might be confusing “being conscious” with “being conscious of being >> conscious”, which indeed would slow down if too much emphasise, like the >> famous millipedes losing its walking ability hen asking itself how it use >> its “thousand” legs. > > Which is being conscious of walking, not being conscious of being conscious > of walking. Just like being conscious of how to hit the tennis ball will > ruin you game. It is necessary when learning to play (and you are bad at > it). But Roger Federer never thinks "Now I will swing in an upward arc so as > to cause top spin." He thinks, "Hit to the left corner.”
OK. But as you say yourself, consciousness is needed in the learning phase, and that is where the speed-up is needed. Then consciousness makes its “belief in a reality” speeding up the play too, as it makes something like “there is a left corner” meaningful, in a very quick way. Bruno > > Brent > >> >> >> >>> Conscious thought no doubt helps in planning, but it also allows depression >>> and suicide. Dogs don't commit suicide. >> >> Some dogs died after having refused to eat anything when their master/friend >> died. I agree it is not yet an intentional suicide, but dogs are not that >> dumb. The more we have neurons, the more stupidities we can do. It is the >> price of a Turing universal local reality, and of our own Turing >> universality. >> >> Bruno >> >> >>> >>> Brent >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Bruno >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Brent >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >>> <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
