On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 1:11:01 AM UTC, Brent wrote:
> On 11/9/2018 4:51 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
> From: Brent Meeker <meek...@verizon.net <javascript:>>
> You're dodging my point.  The "issue" of how we have subjective experience 
> only seems to be an issue because in comparison to the "objective" 
> experience of matter where we can trace long, mathematically define causal 
> chains down to...a Lagrangian and coupling constants or something similar, 
> which is long enough and esoteric enough that almost everyone loses 
> interest along the way.  But some people (like Vic) are going to say, "But 
> where does the Langrangian and coupling constants come from?"  and "Why a 
> Lagrangian anyway?" My point is that when we can give a similarly deep and 
> detailed account of why you think of an elephant when reading this, then 
> nobody will worry about "the hard problem of consciousness"; just like they 
> don't worry about "the hard problems of matter" like where that Lagrangian 
> comes from or why a complex Hilbert space.
> Why can't I worry about those things? Where does the Lagrangian come from? 
> And why use a complex Hilbert space? I don't think this is the underlying 
> reason for saying that the "hard problem" of consciousness dissolves on 
> solving the engineering problems. Solving the engineering problems will 
> enable us to produce a fully conscious AI -- but will we then know how it 
> works? We will certainly know where it came from.....
> I just meant those as current examples.  Suppose you find that Lagrangians 
> come from POVI, as Vic proposed.  Then one can ask, "Why POVI?"  Vic 
> implied it was a choice, but that didn't explain why is an available 
> choice. 

*I thought he did explain it, or at least he offered a provisional 
explanation; namely, if the laws of physics were not POVI, they wouldn't 
exist. We couldn't do physics. AG*

So I think both the problem of consciousness and the problem of matter are 
> both "hard"; the problem of matter seems "easy" because we've come a long 
> way in 400yrs of solving the engineering problems of matter.
> Brent

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