> On 17 Dec 2018, at 21:43, Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 12/17/2018 2:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> Sure. Any argument showing that the primary universe exist would be a >> refutation of Mechanism. That is why we do the test, but they confirm that >> the primary universe do not exist, and actually, they refute already that a >> primary universe can make sense. That is understood and normal for most >> physicists. Only materialist philosophers (dogmatic believers) have a >> problem with this, but they don’t argue. They insult, or talk with dismiss >> tones, etc. > > > You ask that a lot of work be done by the word "primary" when it's only > meaning seems to be "a place we start from”.
It means a place without which we cannot start at all. To say that matter is primary means that we can’t explain matter without assuming its existence, and so it means that matter appearance cannot be entirely phenomenological. > > Let me see if I can summarize your theory without all the arguments for it > which, I think, motivate extraneous objections. > > Premises: > 1. The reason a brain produces consciousness (and non-brains don't) is that a > brain instantiates a certain class of computations. > 2. The class of conscious computations can be instantiated differently and > still produce the same conscious thoughts. More or less OK. > 3. Arithmetic exists. That has no meaning. Ll what is asked here is just if you are OK with axioms like 1) If x = y and x = z, then y = z 2) If x = y then xz = yz 3) If x = y then zx = zy 4) Kxy = x 5) Sxyz = xz(yz) Or like Classical logic + 1) 0 ≠ s(x) 2) x ≠ y -> s(x) ≠ s(y) 3) x ≠ 0 -> Ey(x = s(y)) 4) x+0 = x 5) x+s(y) = s(x+y) 6) x*0=0 7) x*s(y)=(x*y)+x > > Conclusions: > 4. Arithmetic instantiates all possible computations and this includes the > class of conscious computations. No, that is not a conclusion here. That is a theorem in arithmetic. Yes, for the second part, as all computation are emulated in any reality satisfying the axiom above, then with mechanism, that includes all conscious experiences. > 5. All possible consciousness exists in arithmetic. > 6. All physical reality exists as an inference from conscious thought and > there is no other evidence for it. You forget that the physical reality is a FIRST PERSON inference and that it has to take into account all computations (notably below its substitution level) making physics into a measure problem, and the measure one has to obey to at least one of []p & p, or []p & <>t, or []p & <>t & p, with p computable (sigma_1). All three give quantum logics, so there is still some room for different “philosophies” according to which one is closer to nature. > > I don't necessarily accept those, but I'm willing to consider them as a > theory of everything and see what they predict. One thing you often repeat > is that you can derive QM from them. So what is that derivation? I reverse the representation by Goldblatt on the logic of those material hypostases. That gives a quantum logic, and that is arithmetically complete, and richer than the QL inferred on Nature, and if mechanism is correct, all probabilities will be derived from a “Gleason theorem” in the semantic of some of those material mode. It is technical, as we could expect, and it relies in part to that important representation theorem of minimal quantum logic in the modal logic B. We found such logic B-like for all three material self-)referential modes. Bruno > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
