On 12/18/2018 5:05 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 17 Dec 2018, at 21:43, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 12/17/2018 2:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Sure. Any argument showing that the primary universe exist would be a
refutation of Mechanism. That is why we do the test, but they confirm that the
primary universe do not exist, and actually, they refute already that a primary
universe can make sense. That is understood and normal for most physicists.
Only materialist philosophers (dogmatic believers) have a problem with this,
but they don’t argue. They insult, or talk with dismiss tones, etc.
You ask that a lot of work be done by the word "primary" when it's only meaning
seems to be "a place we start from”.
It means a place without which we cannot start at all.
To say that matter is primary means that we can’t explain matter without
assuming its existence, and so it means that matter appearance cannot be
entirely phenomenological.
Let me see if I can summarize your theory without all the arguments for it
which, I think, motivate extraneous objections.
Premises:
1. The reason a brain produces consciousness (and non-brains don't) is that a
brain instantiates a certain class of computations.
2. The class of conscious computations can be instantiated differently and
still produce the same conscious thoughts.
More or less OK.
3. Arithmetic exists.
That has no meaning. Ll what is asked here is just if you are OK with axioms
like
What does it mean to be "OK with axioms"?? I'm OK with any axiom anyone
wants to reason about.
1) If x = y and x = z, then y = z
2) If x = y then xz = yz
3) If x = y then zx = zy
4) Kxy = x
5) Sxyz = xz(yz)
Or like
Classical logic +
1) 0 ≠ s(x)
2) x ≠ y -> s(x) ≠ s(y)
3) x ≠ 0 -> Ey(x = s(y))
4) x+0 = x
5) x+s(y) = s(x+y)
6) x*0=0
7) x*s(y)=(x*y)+x
Conclusions:
4. Arithmetic instantiates all possible computations and this includes the
class of conscious computations.
No, that is not a conclusion here. That is a theorem in arithmetic.
Theorems are conclusions of logical inferences.
Yes, for the second part, as all computation are emulated in any reality
satisfying the axiom above, then with mechanism, that includes all conscious
experiences.
5. All possible consciousness exists in arithmetic.
6. All physical reality exists as an inference from conscious thought and there
is no other evidence for it.
You forget that the physical reality is a FIRST PERSON inference and that it has to take into account all
computations (notably below its substitution level) making physics into a measure problem, and the measure
one has to obey to at least one of []p & p, or []p & <>t, or []p & <>t & p,
with p computable (sigma_1). All three give quantum logics, so there is still some room for different
“philosophies” according to which one is closer to nature.
I forget?? Have you proven those things from the above axioms. I don't
think you've even shown there is "FIRST PERSON" or a "physical reality".
Brent
I don't necessarily accept those, but I'm willing to consider them as a theory
of everything and see what they predict. One thing you often repeat is that
you can derive QM from them. So what is that derivation?
I reverse the representation by Goldblatt on the logic of those material
hypostases. That gives a quantum logic, and that is arithmetically complete,
and richer than the QL inferred on Nature, and if mechanism is correct, all
probabilities will be derived from a “Gleason theorem” in the semantic of some
of those material mode. It is technical, as we could expect, and it relies in
part to that important representation theorem of minimal quantum logic in the
modal logic B. We found such logic B-like for all three material
self-)referential modes.
Bruno
Brent
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