On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 03:17:59AM -0700, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: > What does "self model" even mean ? Notice that any material attempt to > implement "self model" leads to infinite regress. Because let's say that a > machine has the parts A B C. To have a "self model" would mean to have another > part (A B C) which would contain the "self model". But this would be an extra > part of the "self" which would be needed to be included in the "self model" in > order to actually have a "self model", so you would need another part (A B C > (A > B C)). But then again you would need to include this part as well in the "self > model". So you will get to infinite regress. Therefore, you need a special > kind > of entity to obtained the desired effect without getting into infinite > regress. > And that's precisely why the self-reference that I'm talking about in the book > is unformalizable. And as you say, being unformalizable, allows for > bootstrapping consciousness into existence. You cannot simulate self-reference > just by playing around with atoms. Self-reference just is. It just is the > source of the entire existence. Is not up to anyone to simulate the source of > existence. You can never obtain the properties of consciousness (meaning, > purpose, free will, memory, intelligence, learning, acting, etc.) just by > playing around with a bunch of atoms. All these properties of consciousness > are > having their source in the unformalizable self-reference. >
The same argument was made in favour of vitalism - before the structure and mechanics of DNA was discovered. Self-reference is formalisable. See Löb's theorem. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders Visiting Senior Research Fellow [email protected] Economics, Kingston University http://www.hpcoders.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
