On 5/22/2019 6:31 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 21 May 2019, at 20:59, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List
<everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:
On 5/21/2019 2:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
3) I don't even know what it would mean for consciousness to be provable, nor
why that is relevant.
It is part of the axiomatic definition we search.
Of course it is the proposition “I am conscious” which is both immediately true
and not provable.
Of course whether it is immediately true is what is in question.
“I am conscious” is the experience, not the 3P description of the brain which
might make that experience manifestable.
When you speak the words, "I am conscious." are you conscious at that moment.
Yes. Normally. Obviously, we can have fever, get mad, but all this are
irrelevant for the logical reasoning.
I remember a scifi story in which aliens who communicate telepathically (by EM as I recall) visit
Earth. They can "read the minds" of humans but they are frustrated in trying to
communicate with humans because the humans keep opening their mouths and producing vibrations and
whenever they do this, their "minds" go blank.
OK. But that is science-fiction. The immediacy factor is subjective. If the
human say “I am conscious”, its perception of consciousness seems direct. Some
notorious experience by Libet show that a decision we believe being made
consciously is actually already done unconsciously before the decision is
conscious,
Also the Grey Walter experiments.
which is stronger than what I say. The point is the the subject feel that
consciousness is immediate.
As Dennett has pointed out your brain synchronizes perceptions by
compensating for the different delays in being processed and reaching
consciousness. I have noted this myself. If something unexpected
happens like a small explosion this synchronization fails and you hear
the explosion before you see it.
Brent
That happens in both the []p & <>t and []p & <>t & p self-reference modes. The
Kripke accessibility relation islets the transitivity in the communicable part and incommmunicable
parts (handled by G and G* respectively).
Bruno
Brent
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