> On 27 May 2019, at 20:20, Philip Thrift <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Monday, May 27, 2019 at 7:59:46 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: > Consciousness is the stage within which all these phenomena are observed. It > is a qualitatively different thing, unlike any other thing I can think of. > > It's like asking the difference between "Citizen Kane", "Star Wars", > "Clockwork Orange" and a cinema screen. > > Telmo. > > > If you are a real materialist (Strawson's term), then consciousness is a > property of (at least) the matter that fills up our skulls. Consciousness is > 100% material.
That has no meaning for me. Could you send me 5g of consciousness, tell me how it reacts, etc. Without mechanism, I can logically conceived that perhaps consciousness has a material aspect, but, even without mechanism, that remains extremely speculative. With Mechanism, it is provably wrong. With mechanism, even matter is not material. With mechanism, we get immaterialism, but not idealism, unless you put the numbers into the category of (God’s) mental imagination. But that is not necessary, as the axiom of arithmetic used will remain unchanged. > There is nothing like the brain in complexity around, but to say that the > brain is in part immaterial is like theology. > > What you are presenting of course is dualism, matter on one hand, immaterial > consciousness on the other. It's just another form of antimaterialism. Mechanism is incompatible with Materialism, but the arithmetical reality seems to explain all aspect of consciousness, including the presenting illusion of a material reality, shown unavoidable with mechanism. With mechanism, the laws of physics are the same for all universal numbers. Bruno > > - Immaterialism <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaterialism>, a philosophy > branching from George Berkeley of which his idealism is a type > - Dualism (philosophy of mind) > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism_(philosophy_of_mind)>, a philosophy > which includes the claim that mental phenomena are, in some respects, > non-physical > - Gnosticism <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism>, a general class of > religious movements which hold that human beings have divine souls trapped in > a material world > - Idealism <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism>, which holds that the > ultimate nature of reality is based on mind or ideas > - Maya (illusion) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_(illusion)>, a concept > in various Indian religions regarding the dualism of the Universe > - Platonic realism <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platonic_realism>, which > holds that certain universals have a real existence, in the sense of > philosophical realism > - Supernaturalism <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernaturalism> > - Transcendentalism <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendentalism>, a > group of ideas involving an ideal spiritual state that 'transcends' the > physical and empirical realms > > @philipthrift > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b178e747-989a-48a1-af16-9a3439bb6ad0%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b178e747-989a-48a1-af16-9a3439bb6ad0%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/95E6B6E7-8FC3-43FD-83D8-3332171D0E93%40ulb.ac.be.
