> On 28 May 2019, at 23:28, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 5/28/2019 4:38 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 28 May 2019, at 08:00, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 5/27/2019 11:06 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On Monday, May 27, 2019 at 8:38:58 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >>>> On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 3:57 AM Philip Thrift <[email protected] >>>> <javascript:>> wrote: >>>> >>>> > It is odd that the phenomenon of consciousness would be a "hard" >>>> > problem, as if other "problems" of nature would be "easy". We don't know >>>> > what dark matter and dark energy are. >>>> >>>> The question "What is Dark Matter?" is the second most important question >>>> in physics beaten only by "What is Dark Energy?". We don't know the answer >>>> to either one but as least the question is clear so in that sense they are >>>> easy. But nobody even knows what the "hard" question of consciousness is >>>> much less have a answer, by that I mean nobody even knows the general form >>>> an answer would take that would allow people like Bruno to say it has been >>>> solved. >>>> >>>> For example, if I discovered a new stable particle that was so numerous >>>> that its mass added up to 5 times the mass of all normal baryonic matter >>>> in the universe then the Dark Matter question would be answered; and if it >>>> can be proven that Einstein's Cosmological Constant exists and exerts a >>>> negative pressure then the Dark Energy question will be answered. But what >>>> would allow you to say the hard question of consciousness has been >>>> answered? I have no idea because the question has not been stated clearly. >>>> >>>> John K Clark >>>> >>>> >>>> My main point is we don't know what gravity is either. Witness all the >>>> physicists today - some say it is "emergent" (not fundamental) and a dozen >>>> other options for what gravity is. >>>> >>>> We observe both the existence of consciousness (in ourselves) and >>>> phenomenal gravity (in everything, recording how things move) but there is >>>> still a hard problem of gravity. There is no accepted final theory of >>>> gravity. And no "problem" of science (including gravity) will ever be >>>> "solved". That idea is a form of theology. Science just comes up with >>>> theories that might be useful in some way. >>> >>> On the other hand, the solutions science finds work better than the >>> solutions provided by every other disciplines...like theology. >> >> That is simply wrong. Physics predicts very well, but only by its >> speculation of some yet unknown non computationalist theory of mind. > > Which casts doubt on the computationalist theory of mind.
Yes, of course. But doubting is not a reason to abandon a theory. GR throws doubt on QM. QM throws doubt on GR, for example. > >> >> If you don’t believe this, you have to explain me how you related the 3p >> prediction with the 1p confirmation, and this will require some God singling >> out a computation from all computations. > > The same way I related the 1p action to the 3p set up of the experiment. But that des not work with the computationalist theory of mind, as I have explained. Bruno > > Brent > >> >> The situation is very similar with the reaction of the wave packet. It would >> makes sense only with a criteria telling us where QM get wrong in between >> the observer and the observed. Wigner and von Neuman suggest that it is at >> the level of consciousness, which is at least coherent with the incompatibly >> between Mechanism and physicalism. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >>> >>> Brent >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/15f028cc-9a50-cf72-0445-a61bae556c23%40verizon.net >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/15f028cc-9a50-cf72-0445-a61bae556c23%40verizon.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/4F48A120-FCF7-4581-AB7B-E4E5C59648C9%40ulb.ac.be >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/4F48A120-FCF7-4581-AB7B-E4E5C59648C9%40ulb.ac.be?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/29bc4be0-e251-e129-a0ca-397b8fe821f9%40verizon.net > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/29bc4be0-e251-e129-a0ca-397b8fe821f9%40verizon.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/486B4CF0-7969-4D38-870F-9A02CB17C879%40ulb.ac.be.
