> On 27 May 2019, at 09:57, Philip Thrift <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Sunday, May 26, 2019 at 7:34:27 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > > On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 4:30 AM Bruno Marchal <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > > >> Nobody knows the answer to the "hard problem of consciousness" because > >> nobody knows exactly what the question is or what criteria is to be used > >> to determine if its been successfully answered. > > > So you don’t understand it. > > Correct, I don't know the question so I have no way of knowing if it's been > successfully answered or not and after communicating with you for years I > don't think even you what would satisfy you. If I could prove with > mathematical certitude that X caused consciousness would you say the issue > had been put to bed and its time to move on to other things? I doubt it, I > think you'd say (correctly) that X may cause consciousness but X is not > consciousness. And the tail chasing would continue because you don't know > what exactly you want to know. > > >It is not so astonishing. That explains your lack of interest in greek > >philosophy. > > The fact that you ARE interested in Greek philosophy is tacit admission on > your part that the field you're so interested in has not advanced one > nanometer in 2500 years; after all no modern astronomer would dream of > studying Greek astronomical theories with the hope of it helping him in has > work because astronomy has advanced light years in the last 2500 years; and > the same is also true for medicine and mathematics and physics, but not for > Greek philosophy.. > > > The worst theologian are those who claim to know the truth. > > I agree, and the second worst type of theologian are those that abandon the > idea of God but believe they have made a great philosophical discovery by not > abandoned the ASCII sequence G-O-D. > > John K Clark > > > > It is odd that the phenomenon of consciousness would be a "hard" problem, as > if other "problems" of nature would be "easy". We don't know what dark matter > and dark energy are. There are a hundred papers on arXiv with different > definitions and theories on those two "problems". We don't know if those > terms are well defined - we only observe phenomena we associate with them. > Physicists - at least in the articles they write for both scientific and > science-for-the-general-reader publications - don't agree on what space, > time, spacetime, or gravity are (e.g. loop quantum gravity vs. scale > relativity vs. string theory vs. ...). There are unsolved problems in > chemistry*. The medley of "quantum gravity" theories - attempts to meld GR > and QM - make gravity** a "hard" problem. In the scheme of things, > consciousness may be a "hard" problems, but science is full of such things. > > * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsolved_problems_in_chemistry > ** e.g. Entropic gravity, also known as emergent gravity, is a theory in > modern physics that describes gravity as an entropic force—a force with > macro-scale homogeneity but which is subject to quantum-level disorder—and > not a fundamental interaction.
The hard problem is due to our wanting to associate a first person phenomenology to a 3p reality. With mechanism this leads to only one solution/problem: to derive the physics from the phenomenology of the self. And this works, up to now, leading to an “easy” problem of matter, which is of course technically rather difficult, but the propositional part of physics has already been derived. The idea that the problem is hard, is that it cannot been explained in the same way we can explain macroscopic temperature from the kinetics of atoms, or life from chemistry. In those case we reduce 3p-problems into 3p-problems. The only proposed solution to the 1p-3p relationship problem have been proposed by Plato, and dismiss by Aristotle and its followers. But reality strikes back, as today, most serious people understand that the Aristotle solution is simply not working. Bruno > > @philipthrift > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b1641605-ff99-461c-b5cd-201e43a119a4%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b1641605-ff99-461c-b5cd-201e43a119a4%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/F83B4BCB-4BBF-4778-A9C2-F0E321E0CF2F%40ulb.ac.be.
