On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 5:50:11 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>
>
>
> Le ven. 19 juil. 2019 à 12:18, Philip Thrift <[email protected]
> <javascript:>> a écrit :
>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 3:52:05 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ...
>>> You insist that nobody has been able to produce a computer without using
>>> matter. I agree. What you refuse to consider is the possibility that matter
>>> is the dream of computations, and not the other way around. Whatever we
>>> are, it seems clear that we are bound to perceive reality as made of
>>> matter, but it doesn't follow that matter is the ultimate reality. This is
>>> just Plato's Cave with modern language.
>>>
>>> Telmo.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I've been perplexed for 50 years how the idea of immaterialism (that
>> there is something other than matter) came to be.
>>
>> The so-called abstractions - like the definition of the Turing machine
>> you read in a textbook - are just fictions. But fictions can be useful.
>> Maybe there should be a better word for useful fictions. Math is as good as
>> any, for part of that anyway.
>>
>> The old guys, Thales, Democritus, Epicurus, were curious about matter.
>> Where did this bizarre trend towards immaterialism come from?
>>
>
> How is trend to believe there is only matter (what is it ?) came to be ?
> How is the believe in *only matter* not bizarre ? It is as bizarre as
> anything reality is... I don't see materialism as less bizarre than
> anything about the nature of reality... as if we knew what reality was...
> It seems to me it's the people who believe there are some beliefs about
> reality which are *not* bizarre that are bizarre.
>
> Quentin
>
>>
>> *The original sin of philosophy occurred when mathematical and mental
>> (and computational) entities were abstracted away from their material home.*
>>
>> @pphilipthrift
>>
>>
I just don't believe in anything immaterial, or supernatural - like God, or
ghosts. It is a fact a lot of people do. Some just are prone to believe in
the immaterial/supernatural:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimaterialism
@philipthrift
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