> On 19 Jul 2019, at 13:02, Philip Thrift <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 5:50:11 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > Le ven. 19 juil. 2019 à 12:18, Philip Thrift <[email protected] > <javascript:>> a écrit : > > > On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 3:52:05 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: > > > ... > You insist that nobody has been able to produce a computer without using > matter. I agree. What you refuse to consider is the possibility that matter > is the dream of computations, and not the other way around. Whatever we are, > it seems clear that we are bound to perceive reality as made of matter, but > it doesn't follow that matter is the ultimate reality. This is just Plato's > Cave with modern language. > > Telmo. > > > > I've been perplexed for 50 years how the idea of immaterialism (that there is > something other than matter) came to be. > > The so-called abstractions - like the definition of the Turing machine you > read in a textbook - are just fictions. But fictions can be useful. Maybe > there should be a better word for useful fictions. Math is as good as any, > for part of that anyway. > > The old guys, Thales, Democritus, Epicurus, were curious about matter. Where > did this bizarre trend towards immaterialism come from? > > How is trend to believe there is only matter (what is it ?) came to be ? How > is the believe in *only matter* not bizarre ? It is as bizarre as anything > reality is... I don't see materialism as less bizarre than anything about the > nature of reality... as if we knew what reality was... It seems to me it's > the people who believe there are some beliefs about reality which are *not* > bizarre that are bizarre. > > Quentin > > The original sin of philosophy occurred when mathematical and mental (and > computational) entities were abstracted away from their material home. > > @pphilipthrift > > > > > > I just don't believe in anything immaterial, or supernatural - like God, or > ghosts. It is a fact a lot of people do. Some just are prone to believe in > the immaterial/supernatural: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimaterialism > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimaterialism> > > @philipthrift
I think we agree to disagree on this. It is not so much that personally I am more sure that 6 divides 18, than say any extrapolation from nature like F = GmM/r^2, it is also that my working hypothesis is digital mechanism, which requires beliefs equivalent to arithmetic, like the axioms Kxy = x, and Sxyz = xz(yz), or x + 0 = x. The advantage of mechanism is that it transforms the mind body problem into a mathematical body problem, and its solution makes the Mechanist hypothesis testable, and indeed confirmed up to now. By assuming the existence of (primary) Matter, you loss the possibility to explain it, and you loss the mean to use the mechanist theory of mind, without providing a conceptually clear non-mechanist theory of mind. Bruno > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b206f0be-f161-4d55-b436-f8c8d6c4c482%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b206f0be-f161-4d55-b436-f8c8d6c4c482%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2B28F881-77C7-4B83-A05E-55AB2C4A8E44%40ulb.ac.be.
