Le ven. 19 juil. 2019 à 14:45, Philip Thrift <[email protected]> a écrit :
> > > On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 6:31:53 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> Le ven. 19 juil. 2019 à 13:02, Philip Thrift <[email protected]> a >> écrit : >> >>> >>> >>> On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 5:50:11 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Le ven. 19 juil. 2019 à 12:18, Philip Thrift <[email protected]> a >>>> écrit : >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 3:52:05 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ... >>>>>> You insist that nobody has been able to produce a computer without >>>>>> using matter. I agree. What you refuse to consider is the possibility >>>>>> that >>>>>> matter is the dream of computations, and not the other way around. >>>>>> Whatever >>>>>> we are, it seems clear that we are bound to perceive reality as made of >>>>>> matter, but it doesn't follow that matter is the ultimate reality. This >>>>>> is >>>>>> just Plato's Cave with modern language. >>>>>> >>>>>> Telmo. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> I've been perplexed for 50 years how the idea of immaterialism (that >>>>> there is something other than matter) came to be. >>>>> >>>>> The so-called abstractions - like the definition of the Turing machine >>>>> you read in a textbook - are just fictions. But fictions can be useful. >>>>> Maybe there should be a better word for useful fictions. Math is as good >>>>> as >>>>> any, for part of that anyway. >>>>> >>>>> The old guys, Thales, Democritus, Epicurus, were curious about matter. >>>>> Where did this bizarre trend towards immaterialism come from? >>>>> >>>> >>>> How is trend to believe there is only matter (what is it ?) came to be >>>> ? How is the believe in *only matter* not bizarre ? It is as bizarre as >>>> anything reality is... I don't see materialism as less bizarre than >>>> anything about the nature of reality... as if we knew what reality was... >>>> It seems to me it's the people who believe there are some beliefs about >>>> reality which are *not* bizarre that are bizarre. >>>> >>>> Quentin >>>> >>>>> >>>>> *The original sin of philosophy occurred when mathematical and mental >>>>> (and computational) entities were abstracted away from their material >>>>> home.* >>>>> >>>>> @pphilipthrift >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I just don't believe in anything immaterial, or supernatural - like God, >>> or ghosts. It is a fact a lot of people do. Some just are prone to believe >>> in the immaterial/supernatural: >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimaterialism >>> >> >> I understand, but *how* your beliefs are *not* bizarre ? Do you know what >> reality is ? >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> > > > Well matter is bizarre enough on its own. > > Read the latest science news on new discoveries in *materials science.* > > I don't see why you would want to add ghosts into the mix. > Where did I talk about ghosts ? nowhere, but you did. I'm only talking about your assertion your beliefs are not *bizarre* (contrary to others who are bizarre)... I'm just saying they are bizarre (your beliefs) as anything about reality is. So can you explain why yours are not *bizarre* and others are. > @philipthrift > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/9e16794e-ca77-4954-a2b6-80bcd88148e6%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/9e16794e-ca77-4954-a2b6-80bcd88148e6%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy Batty/Rutger Hauer) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAMW2kApe2D8Exj15aNZgfS9t9JDCA--gbwBeS6A73sQmn%2B6KEw%40mail.gmail.com.
