On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 1:47:41 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
>
>
>
> On 5/4/2020 6:27 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>
>
>
> Le lun. 4 mai 2020 à 14:15, Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com
> <javascript:>> a écrit :
>
>> On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 10:14:10 PM UTC-5, smitra wrote:
>>>
>>> On 03-05-2020 23:09, Philip Thrift wrote:
>>> > The SSH
>>> >
>>> > https://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/22/2/247
>>> >
>>> > still lies in the "information turn" that plays in physics today.(IT
>>> > FROM QUBIT, etc.) - a rejection pf materialism in favor of idealism.
>>> >
>>> > It is more interesting to me to stick to the vocabulary of
>>> > materialist* physics - particles, fields, interactions, forces - but
>>> > to approach CONSCIOUSNESS AS PURELY MATERIAL - adding a new
>>> > force/interaction/particle/field as needed (like a sixth force/field).
>>> >
>>> > http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Field_theories_of_consciousness
>>> >
>>> >
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_theories_of_consciousness
>>> >
>>> > etc.
>>> >
>>> > * or physicalist
>>> >
>>> > @philipthrift
>>>
>>> Physicalism is a dead end. The hard problem of consciousness and other
>>> philosophical problems can be considered to be no-go theorems against
>>> physicalism. Abandoning physicalism solves all these problems in one
>>> fell swoop. But that also opens the door to wrong theories as people
>>> engaging with non-physicalist theories can too easily advertise their
>>> pet theories because they don't suffer from all the diseases physicalist
>>> theories suffer from. The bar has to be set higher, I would like to see
>>> a derivation of the laws of physics, not some vague argument that it is
>>> consistent with QM and unitary evolution but a lot more detail than just
>>> that.
>>>
>>> Saibal
>>
>>
>> I think more likely this mean the hard problem or qualia are illusions. I
>> have far more confidence in physics than I do in hopeful ideas about
>> qualia, which are psychological form of elan vital thought in previous
>> centuries to underlie biology.
>>
>
> Either you have no quale, and then as a zombie... it could mean something
> (but not to you), or you have, and if a theory cannot account for that, it
> miss the things it purpose to explain.
>
> When you say "psychological form" you're talking about a quale... I don't
> see how that could be explained away...
>
>
> I think the problem here is with the word "explain". Yes, physics will
> never explain quale. But physics doesn't explain matter, or gravity, or
> entropy either. Physics is regarded as successful because it makes good
> predictions, and that allows manipulation of things. Look at the
> controversy over the interpretation of quantum mechanics. We have
> drastically different "explanations" of what is happening...which have zero
> effect on the application or usefulness of the theory. And that's exactly
> the same situation with regard to consciousness and qualia. Chemistry and
> biology have a lot of of good "explanations" of quale in the sense of being
> able to predict them and manipulate them. Sure, it's no where near as deep
> as physics explanations which reach down to sub-atomic level. But physics
> aims for depth and bypasses the complex problems of biology as accidents of
> evolution, mere geography problems. There's no reason to suppose that
> chemistry and molecular biology and study of brain structure and AI will
> not reach the same depth of explanation of consciousness. And it still
> won't "explain" quale, but it will manipulate them and reproduce them in AI
> and people will forget all about how mysterious they were...just like they
> have forgotten elan vitale.
>
> Brent
>
>
If we can program "matter" (or whatever we want to call it) to *accomplish
t goals* we want
https://codicalist.wordpress.com/2020/04/24/substrate-targeted-programming-stp/
then that's enough:
* send people to the moon
* output bioforms/molecules that can eliminate a killer virus
* program the human biocomputer [
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_biocomputer ] qualia processing
* ...
@philipthrift
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