Come on Philip, don't be so gloomy, the Saturnalia is upon us! You're going to ruin our crops with your attitude.
Am Fr, 18. Dez 2020, um 19:57, schrieb Philip Benjamin: > [*Telmo Menezes*] > “Imagine the "universe" in terms of the set of all first-person experience > moments of all of its inhabitants. Is there a limit to novelty here? Or can > qualia also display unbounded complexity?” > [*Philip Benjamin*] > How will you include Augustine’s (3rd - 4 th Centuries, > https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine) first person > experience into your imagined universe? It was Augustine who pulled the West > out of Greco-Roman superstitious paganism and baptized Platonism into > Scriptural norms and thus became the architect of Western Civilization. > Augustine himself was a Phoenician profligate pagan with un-awakened > consciousness who was instantly transformed into a non-pagan with awakened > consciousness by “accidentally” listening to a child’s song > (https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine). America is > a product of similar “Two Great Awakenings” which are both historical and > historic. > [*Telmo Menezes*] > “You wouldn't if you thought about the evolution of mind and how it serves in > natural selection. Counting is very useful. Even animals do it”. > [*Philip Benjamin*] > How is Evolution qua trans-speciation is applicable to “mind”? Natural > selection is adaptation, an informational capability that is built into the > genetic structures which involve chemical bonds. That is an ENDOWMENT not > EVOLUTION. Instant transformation of mind is clearly illustrated in > Augustinian first person experience. There is no trans-speciation here form > lower animal to a higher animal!! > *Philip Benjamin* ** > > > *From:* 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <[email protected]> > Thursday, December 17, 2020 2:15 PM > [email protected] *Subject:* Re: Consciousness and number > self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?) > On 12/16/2020 11:29 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> >> Am Do, 17. Dez 2020, um 03:08, schrieb 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List: >>> >>> >>> On 12/16/2020 9:20 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >>>> Am So, 13. Dez 2020, um 17:11, schrieb Bruno Marchal: >>>>> >>>>>> On 10 Dec 2020, at 16:14, Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Mindey asked a very interesting question, and I've been thinking about >>>>>> it while following the discussion. I don't have a good answer, but I >>>>>> might have a good question. I propose another take: the discussion so >>>>>> far has been in terms of quanta, but what if we reframed it in terms of >>>>>> qualia? >>>>>> >>>>>> Imagine the "universe" in terms of the set of all first-person >>>>>> experience moments of all of its inhabitants. Is there a limit to >>>>>> novelty here? Or can qualia also display unbounded complexity? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> With Mechanism, we have to separate clearly the ontology, which is given >>>>> by the minimal things that we have to assume because we cannot derive >>>>> them from simpler thing, and which has to be enough rich to support a >>>>> universal machine. There is some amount of latitude here, because we can >>>>> assume any universal machinery(*). As everyone believe already in natural >>>>> numbers and the laws of addition and multiplication, I use them (albeit >>>>> in my course I prefer to use the combinators, but once we have them we >>>>> have the numbers+laws, and vice versa. >>>> >>>> Still, don't you find it incredibly strange that such a thing exists to >>>> being with? >>> >>> You wouldn't if you thought about the evolution of mind and how it serves >>> in natural selection. Counting is very useful. Even animals do it. >>> >> >> I am aware. What I mean is that it is incredibly strange that anything >> exists at all. > > If nothing existed that would be a contradiction in terms. :-) > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/SA0PR11MB470490C05DF44BBBB815AF61A8C30%40SA0PR11MB4704.namprd11.prod.outlook.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/SA0PR11MB470490C05DF44BBBB815AF61A8C30%40SA0PR11MB4704.namprd11.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/5a13987a-64cb-4be8-9060-9b7faaad0858%40www.fastmail.com.
